Dirk is one of the top 2 players in the NBA

[mavsfan1000]

1. Lebron James
2. Dirk Nowitzki

[joshdaboss]

When LeBron s all over Dirk and this Dallas team, we'll see how differently Dirk will be viewed here.

[mystargtr34]

Dirk's playoff performances since about 2001 have been pretty in ridiculous. He is 7th in PER in playoff history... the only guys ahead of him...

1. Michael Jordan
2. George Mikan ()
3. LeBron James
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Tim Duncan

He has been destroying defenses in the playoffs all decade... he's just been completely forgotten about and dismissed since 2007 due to first and second round exits because of pathetic supporting casts. For all the talk about LeBron's ty supporting cast with Cleveland.. Dirk's supporting cast has been equally ty until now.

[DPG21920]

I love how mav fans act like Dirk has always played THIS well and how they act like this is the only team Dirk has had with talent.

[stretch]

I love how mav fans act like Dirk has always played THIS well and how they act like this is the only team Dirk has had with talent.

Ever since the Golden State fiasco, he pretty much has. Look at the stats. Dude balled his ass off, while Terry and Howard was chucking up 20%, and other guys like Stackhouse and Dampier were completely useless.

[Killakobe81]

Dirk's playoff performances since about 2001 have been pretty in ridiculous. He is 7th in PER in playoff history... the only guys ahead of him...

1. Michael Jordan
2. George Mikan ()
3. LeBron James
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Tim Duncan

He has been destroying defenses in the playoffs all decade... he's just been completely forgotten about and dismissed since 2007 due to first and second round exits because of pathetic supporting casts. For all the talk about LeBron's ty supporting cast with Cleveland.. Dirk's supporting cast has been equally ty until now.

Mikan James and shaq in those spots are laughable ...
But dirk doesnt surprise me, he has been amazingly consistent playoff performer. But PER means little ...

[badfish22]

Dirk's playoff performances since about 2001 have been pretty in ridiculous. He is 7th in PER in playoff history... the only guys ahead of him...

1. Michael Jordan
2. George Mikan ()
3. LeBron James
4. Shaquille O'Neal
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Tim Duncan

He has been destroying defenses in the playoffs all decade... he's just been completely forgotten about and dismissed since 2007 due to first and second round exits because of pathetic supporting casts. For all the talk about LeBron's ty supporting cast with Cleveland.. Dirk's supporting cast has been equally ty until now.

WinShares/48
1. Michael Jordan .2553
2. George Mikan .2541
3. LeBron James .2321
4. Dirk Nowitzki .2108
5. Magic Johnson .2108
next closest active player
9. Tim Duncan

PER
1. MJ 28.59
2. Mikan 28.51
3. James 27.03
4. Shaq 26.12
5. Hakeem 25.69
6. Tim Duncan 25.43
7. Dirk 24.96

Dirk has 7 of the highest single game PER's in playoff history.
Dirk 7
Jordan 9
Bird 0
James 8
Magic 1
Iverson 5
Chris Paul 3
Barkley 10
Kobe 4
Hakeem 4
Duncan 5
Karl Malone 3
Shaq 8

Top 20 performances all time in a playoff game based upon PER:
Barkley 3
Jordan 3
Dirk 3
Kobe 2
James 2
Iverson 2

[dirk4mvp]

This isn't Dirk's first good playoff performance?

[Ghazi]

I love how mav fans act like Dirk has always played THIS well and how they act like this is the only team Dirk has had with talent.

It's true.

Just face it, U WAS WRONG BOUT DEM MAVS

[endrity]

WinShares/48
1. Michael Jordan .2553
2. George Mikan .2541
3. LeBron James .2321
4. Dirk Nowitzki .2108
5. Magic Johnson .2108
next closest active player
9. Tim Duncan

PER
1. MJ 28.59
2. Mikan 28.51
3. James 27.03
4. Shaq 26.12
5. Hakeem 25.69
6. Tim Duncan 25.43
7. Dirk 24.96

Dirk has 7 of the highest single game PER's in playoff history.
Dirk 7
Jordan 9
Bird 0
James 8
Magic 1
Iverson 5
Chris Paul 3
Barkley 10
Kobe 4
Hakeem 4
Duncan 5
Karl Malone 3
Shaq 8

Top 20 performances all time in a playoff game based upon PER:
Barkley 3
Jordan 3
Dirk 3
Kobe 2
James 2
Iverson 2

badfish with the goods yo!

[DAF86]

This isn't Dirk's first good playoff performance?

You gotta give credit to Mavsfans, they have an unique talent to change the point that people arguing with them are trying to make.

[Ghazi]

..DAF.. just be happy for him in June.. ok? ..

[DAF86]

I will.

[dirk4mvp]

why are you so defensive? That comment wasn't even directed at you.

[DAF86]

why are you so defensive? That comment wasn't even directed at you.

Because you have had directed comments like that to me, tbh. Besides I'm not defensive, just pointing out a talent you guys have.

[dirk4mvp]

lol defensive

[Pelicans78]

Why is Mikan suprising? He was the first dominant center in the league. Of course he would have outstanding numbers. He was a man among boys back when he played.

[TD 21]

You do know that Nowitzki has led the league in PER right? Something that Wade has never done. Wade has never been a better go to guy in the NBA, never.

I argued before the playoffs that Dirk should have been a First Team All-NBA, and Wade shouldn't even with a declining Kobe. The only reason why it didn't happen was because he got hurt, and the Mavs lost a lot of ground during the period. But the man was probably having his best shooting season up to that point, and was probably poised to take the MVP. So yes, this was also something that we believed before the playoffs.

I disagree with Howard, but I understand his argument because of how much of a difference he makes on defense. But I can't see much of an argument for Wade once you get past the fact that he is a guard and makes a lot of Sportcenter plays.

Yeah, I know. I did say it's not the be all end all. Robinson is fourth all-time (regular season). I'm a Spurs fan, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's a top ten all-time player, let alone top five (though I do believe he's underrated historically).

How has Wade never been a better go-to guy? They went head to head in the '06 Finals. Nowitzki had a superior supporting cast and Wade played out of his mind, while Nowitzki folded. Don't give me the "free throws" argument. How quickly Mavs fans forgot the Spurs series.

There's a case for Nowitzki over Durant for 1st team. Wade definitely should have beaten out Bryant for 1st team. Nowitzki was never going to take the MVP, though. He'd have figured more prominently into the discussion, because their record would have been better, but he still wouldn't have won it.

And you Mavs fans claim I'm biased? You act like Wade is Maggette. Wade is going to go down as probably a top three-five SG ever and a top twenty player.

[Pelicans78]

Yeah, I know. I did say it's not the be all end all. Robinson is fourth all-time (regular season). I'm a Spurs fan, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's a top ten all-time player, let alone top five (though I do believe he's underrated historically).

How has Wade never been a better go-to guy? They went head to head in the '06 Finals. Nowitzki had a superior supporting cast and Wade played out of his mind, while Nowitzki folded. Don't give me the "free throws" argument. How quickly Mavs fans forgot the Spurs series.

There's a case for Nowitzki over Durant for 1st team. Wade definitely should have beaten out Bryant for 1st team. Nowitzki was never going to take the MVP, though. He'd have figured more prominently into the discussion, because their record would have been better, but he still wouldn't have won it.

And you Mavs fans claim I'm biased? You act like Wade is Maggette. Wade is going to go down as probably a top three-five SG ever and a top twenty player.

You really think Dirk had a better supporting cast? You must not have paid attention to how good the Heat were in the playoffs.

Shaq, Zo, Haslem, Posey, Williams, Payton, Walker? Guys who may have been past their primes but were very good players in the league.

[TD 21]

You really think Dirk had a better supporting cast? You must not have paid attention to how good the Heat were in the playoffs.

Shaq, Zo, Haslem, Posey, Williams, Payton, Walker? Guys who may have been past their primes but were very good players in the league.

He clearly did, which is why the Mavs were favored. Wade had to create and/or finish virtually everything for the Heat offensively. O'Neal, who was already no longer at his peak, was beginning his decline from elite player status that season.

As for the rest, who cares about what they were? This is the same argument some use to downplay Duncan's incredible '03 run. You've got to look past the collection of names and consider where they were in their respective careers at the time.

[mystargtr34]

Mikan James and shaq in those spots are laughable ...
But dirk doesnt surprise me, he has been amazingly consistent playoff performer. But PER means little ...

Why would Shaq and LeBron in those positions be laughable? These two have had some of those most dominant playoff performances in NBA history.. Shaq more so.

[Nathan89]

Yeah, I know. I did say it's not the be all end all. Robinson is fourth all-time (regular season). I'm a Spurs fan, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's a top ten all-time player, let alone top five (though I do believe he's underrated historically).

How has Wade never been a better go-to guy? They went head to head in the '06 Finals. Nowitzki had a superior supporting cast and Wade played out of his mind, while Nowitzki folded. Don't give me the "free throws" argument. How quickly Mavs fans forgot the Spurs series.

There's a case for Nowitzki over Durant for 1st team. Wade definitely should have beaten out Bryant for 1st team. Nowitzki was never going to take the MVP, though. He'd have figured more prominently into the discussion, because their record would have been better, but he still wouldn't have won it.

And you Mavs fans claim I'm biased? You act like Wade is Maggette. Wade is going to go down as probably a top three-five SG ever and a top twenty player.

When you say this it sounds like the "free throws" argument isn't acceptable because the Spurs overcame in the Mavs vs Spurs series. You probably thought we were the better team and would have won the series without the bull ft disparity. Which leads to the understanding that it's hard for a team even the better team to win if bull calls are made.

Whether or not the ft argument is valid is a different story.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Nowitzki is having an incredible playoff run. However part of the reason for this success as opposed to previous years is the decline of the other three once in a generation superstars of this era. Duncan,Bryant and O'Neal have much more mileage on them due to all of the deep playoff runs while playing more physically demanding minutes. No disrespect to Dirk, but this is clearly a transitional year in the NBA and he has taken advantage.

[TD 21]

When you say this it sounds like the "free throws" argument isn't acceptable because the Spurs overcame in the Mavs vs Spurs series. You probably thought we were the better team and would have won the series without the bull ft disparity. Which leads to the understanding that it's hard for a team even the better team to win if bull calls are made.

Whether or not the ft argument is valid is a different story.

I never saw the '06 Finals as being nearly as poorly officiated as many thought, though. The '06 Mavs-Spurs series, after the '02 Lakers-Kings series, I might rate that as the second worst officiated series I've ever seen.

Are you sure you're a Spurs fan? Because you come off as being about as big a Mavs/Nowitzki fan as there is. Constantly coming to their defense and being overly sensitive.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Some people really underrated Howard in this thread.

And Nowtizki's teams have been right near the top in payroll for the majority of the decade. So I don't buy this notion that he had a mediocre supporting cast some people in this thread have tried to make.