Ironically, a prime Dirk would be owned by DRob, Hakeem and Rodman. Dirk wasn't tough or smart enough to beat those guys (in case of Hakeem and DRob, I'm not sure he's smart enough even now).
Rodman would be in Dirk's head much more than Stephen Jackson was. Dirk is a tougher player now, so Rodman may not be as effective later in Dirk's career than earlier. And DRob and Hakeem had the athleticism, footspeed and quickness to negate any advantage Dirk has over other big men.
Dallas won the le with their defense, aka Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd and Shawn Marion. Dirk may have been the MVP on the offensive end, but Marion's defense made him a darkhorse for the award in the Finals. Can't say enough about how he got in Lebron's head. Defense wins championships. Can't be ignored. DRob is the best defensive big man of the 3 guys you mentioned.
There is no answer to this question. Even though they are both "bigs" their games are so different it's like comparing apples to oranges.
1. Dirk without a doubt is the superior offensive player. Even though DRob scored a ton of points and even led the NBA in scoring once, in pressure situations he did not have a "go to" move that could produce. Dirk obviously does.
2. By the same token, DRob was a VASTLY superior defender, rebounder, shot-blocker, much faster and athletic overall.
They are both great players and I would leave it at that.
The list is for those who don't watch the game, who just sit around running their mouths about teams they don't even see play and comparing players they haven't even watched.
Anyone who's watched the Mavs play for the past however many years knows how good Dirk is already.
Robinson played in 2011?Spurs fans acting like 1995 and 2011 never happened.
You can erase past choking, like it never happened? After all the Mavs went through between 2006 to 2010, I would have thought Mavs fans, out of all people, would understand tha a player's playoff performance have as much to do with game plan, matchups, and just when you are hot or not at a particular moment.
But people just like to think about an entire's team performance is the work or one player.
Any person with a reasonable ability to read should be able to understand that is entirely my point, where Dirk played on flawed teams in 06 and 07, where the Mavs haven't yet learned of how to build a team around a player as unique as Dirk. They finally figured it out in 11.And since YOU mention 2006 and 2007,I don't care about Robinson's poor supporting cast in 1995,or any other excuse,no matter how legit they are(I agree that the Spurs front office failed him).
I have plenty of them for 2006 and 2007 too.Especially for 2006.
The Spurs never figured out how to build around Robinson (which should have been pretty simple, such as not having a PG who made one playoff 3pter in his career, or not having a PF who goes nuts and chucks 6 three pointers in an important playoff game, or not having starting SG who can't even get decent minutes on some of the worst teams in the history of the league).
Robinson and Dirk are very similar player:
1) Both are too nice to speak up and challenge front office
2) Both are talents so unique at their positions
as a result, both went through painful stretches in their career where they had to toil with some teams that are constructed to have them carry the whole weight.
It is not a legit comparison, both are comparable offensively, and Robinson is much better defensively. Next thing you know, people will talk about how Billups is better than Oscar Robertson and Jerry West because Billups won it all as the lead guy.
So how would I feel the need to bump him up? It has much more to do with the fact that Robinson was underrated his entire career and beyond because non-Spurs fans rarely associate him with success. An issue that was in no part his problem (Jerry Tarkanian? Jerry Lucas? Bob Hill? Give me a break). Spurs fans witnessed how Robinson took an otherwise 21-win team into a 55-win team year after year, how the front office kept throwing these ridiculously underwhelming supporting casts around him and set him up for failure year after year. Non-Spurs fan just looked at how the Spurs failed in the playoffs, and put the blame squarely on Robinson.
I won't even mind that much if people were more consistent with how they evaluate players, but they don't. People don't apply the same standards to players like Barkley (who I think is top3 PF of all time, over that pedophile choker), or Ewing (who had a far superior supporting cast), Garnett (who couldn't get anything done until he got onto one of the most stacked team in modern NBA history), or even pre-2000 Shaq (check his PO numbers vs. his regular season numbers). But for some reason, and I am guessing it's because Robinson doesn't scream in front of a camera, or make outlandish promises year after year, people just continue to diss on him.
Given how TD post up similar numbers to Garnett in head to head games how do you figure?
I always figured Robinson couldn't win anything because Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro were his STARTGING backcourt, and his coach was John Lucas. Where as dominant other big man who won anything in their life has a backcourt portfolio of Kobe Bryant, Clyde Drexler, Magic Johnson, Maurice Cheeks, Manu Ginobili, Bob Cousy, Clyde Frasier and such. The worst I found were Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell, who had a guy named Sam Cassell and Mario Elie backing them up.
Coaches range from Pat Riley to Phil Jackson, from Red Archibald to Jack Ramsey. I mean, John Lucas, what the ?
This is just hilarious, Dirk was the poster boy of choke up till 2011 (nonsense where I never subscribed to), and he suddenly became clutch because of one playoff run? This is like saying Stalin is a nice guy because he saved a litter of puppies before he died.
How is Dirk better on O? He led the league in scoring? He led his team in assists? He shot better than Robinson from the field? How was he better, exactly?
Unless you were trying to say Dirk was better on D ....
Duncan was the greatest PF of all time because he was great on O and D, was easy to build around, and understands the game.
And Robinson most definitely rode the coattails in 99 and 03, no question.
Come on Proxy, everyone knows you are a troll of a Mavs fan (likely Axe's), stop with the Spurs fan shtick.
Let's put it this way. If both Dirk and David played each other in their primes, David would most definitely shut Dirk's ass down while on the other end taking to the hole at will.
D Rob never won a championship on his own because he never had a supporting cast like Dirk nuff said.
Depends on who he earned it against tbh.
People want to vault Dirk ahead of Karl Malone on this basis. They forget that Malone was in two straight finals but had the misfortune of meeting the GOAT each time. Ditto for Barkley (x1).
Rings are great but when there's only one, context counts a of a lot more.
Last edited by Agloco; 06-21-2011 at 08:43 AM.
OK....give a supporting cast that DRob had before he won in 1999 that was better than what Dirk has today.
That's a good point
Dirk had to face scrubs like Kobe/Gasol, Durant/Westbrook, and LeBron/Wade/Bosh
Yeah an old washed up Kobe, with Gasoft and Thunder were too young. And they had faced an epic Choker in Lebron. Way tough.
lolYeah an old washed up Kobe, with Gasoft and Thunder were too young. And they had faced an epic Choker in Lebron. Way tough.
Malone couldn't even beat an overrated chucker in MJ in two attempts.
See what i did there?
Now you're just acting stupid. SMH.
Jordan was an overrated chuckerNow you're just acting stupid. SMH.
/thread
It is what it is.
Any compe ion you could name is a rung below the GOAT and his band of merry men.
pfft. I'd be willing to prove to you that I'm a legit Spurs fan. I was a Chicago fan when I was younger, and became a Spurs fan due to the Admiral. I started becoming a more serious fan when I went to my first game in 98, CHI at SA at the alamo dome... it was MJ's last game as a Bull in SA. Two rings later, SA became a religion for me when Manu came on to the scene. Been die hard since then.
With that being said, the difference from you and me, is that I'm not a homer. I remember watching the Spurs pre-TD, and always being disappointed in the Admiral for not having the killer instinct and clutch performances that I saw in MJ.
Don't give me the team bull either. You're going to tell me that the 95 team wasn't good enough? Rodman, Elliott, and Avery... c'mon. Who did Dirk have this year that wasn't equivalent to that? old Kidd, Marion, and Chandler?
You can be a Spurs fan, but it's plain dumb to act like every Spurs player is the GOAT at their position. Dirk doesn't play defense. He would get raped one-on-one... sure, but this is a team game, and we base HOF players on their achievements.
To say their offenses are comparable is moronic. Throw stats out the window, Dirk did what it took to win, and he was the 4th quarter guy in nearly every single playoff game up to the end of the finals.
I love defense as much as the next silver and black guy, but at some point you have to recognize that Dirk is a freak offensive force. I mean, Dirk's injury in 03 was huge. Let's not forget 06 either. One of the best ever, and he erased his choke-job label by LEADING his team to a ring. Something that D-Rob was never able to do.
Base Spurs greatness on winning
Glorify losing teams to devalue rival
Are you seriously saying they were comparable? You left out Terry, Barrera and Stevenson all of which step up at vital times to take the burden off of Dirk who was doing that for Robinson?
Robinson injury was devastating. W/Robinson 50+ wins injured Robinson= lottery.
Proxy needs to get Dirk's balls out of his throat. ing mavs fan pretending to be Spurs fan.
Dirk is a very solid all star not taking that away from him but he is on the Gervin, Ginobili teir he isn't on the Robinson, Duncan level it isnt even arguable as far as I'm concerned.
you mean all the bench players?
and the stepping up at vital times.... when did Dirk need a release of burden this playoffs? He made the shots himself in the 4th quarter.
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