Hope you feel safer now

[Agloco]

tbh...I feel the need to carry a Cutie Pie onto my next flight so I can check some instantaneous dose readings for myself.

[Agloco]

Yes, this dose emanating from the top of the machines will result in scatter analogous to skyshine as well as primary dose to those standing above it. Here's a link to clarify the phenomenon, it's found in megavoltage therapy environments:

http://www.whiterockscience.com/moritz/aex.html

In a nuts , it's scatter radiation from a primary gamma beam (or in this case our friendly X-ray machine) from atmospheric dispersion.

How much dose this results in is a function of the technique used to produce the backscatter images. The more I read, the more I'm willing to bet that those aren't consistent either. For reference, I've inserted a quick dose calc based on the dose rates we use in radiotherapy. In reality, the dose rates seen with these scanners is an order of magnitude lower (10-20 mGy)

If anyone is interested, you can follow either this pdf which walks through the calculations:

http://www.aapm.org/meetings/07ss/do...STRUCTURES.pdf

or........... suffer through reading a thesis about it as I do:

http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/erhs/...der_Thesis.pdf

Again: Of note.......those calcs are done on megavoltage machines (6-18Mev) whereas the scans done on these machines use energies 3 orders of magnitude lower. That translates to dose rates in the 10 mGy range instead of the 10cGy range used in the calcs. Good thing is that the physical interaction mode does not change. Extrapolate carefully!!

From both examples we can see that doses are in the nSv/uR range. The problem is the volume of scans that a worker is exposed to over the course of a workday (I don't know the exact amount but I'm guessing it's pretty high.....300-400 perhaps?), and their proximity to the machine during those scans. ulative dose can become problematic in that case.

, even an X-ray tech walks out of the door or behind a wall before yelling "X-ray!!!". TSA employees stand next to the controls the entire time.

You essentially have a non-licensed operator(s) in charge of operating machinery that imparts dose to people. I don't understand why this is allowed. Quite disturbing tbh.

[ElNono]

Wouldn't a proper (full, longtime) study by a couple of recognized en ies make sense before deployment? Is it too much to ask? Now you have the NIST saying they didn't say what the TSA say they did.

smh

[ElNono]

What exactly am I giving up? You're talking to someone who's lived outside the US for extended periods of time so our experiences will obviously lead us to different responses here.

I lived most of my life outside of the US too
But I do agree that different experiences will probably lead you to different conclusions.

[Wild Cobra]

so you think that one of the TSA s actually wanted to search a 95 year old lady's bladder control undergarments just to have a hilarious story in the break room?

I think some of them are rather twisted. I simply think it's a possibility.

[Wild Cobra]

Exactly. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. The public will be in an uproar over any security as tight as this. I'd rather it be about searching grandma than about searching the wreckage of a downed airliner.

They've secured the pits, and the terrorists cannot guide a plane any longer. I say go back to the security before 9/11. Sure, it's possible they will blow up a plane, but for just a few hundred innocent, there are easier targets if they want to kill someone. At least it won't be thousands.

This has become too high a price in loss of freedom.

[DarrinS]

that's not the point.

the point has to do with race/ethnicity.

I think you know that.

lol.

Do the stats. McVeigh and unibomber are statistical anomalies (outliers).

[Wild Cobra]

Do the stats. McVeigh and unibomber are statistical anomalies (outliers).

Too many people don't appreciate statistics.

[Wild Cobra's Surgeon]

Too many people don't appreciate statistics.

Amen, sir. Take these for example:

http://www.nmanet.org/images/uploads..._Workforce.pdf

Damn shame.

[LnGrrrR]

Do the stats. McVeigh and unibomber are statistical anomalies (outliers).

We're not counting abortion bombers in this, are we?

And how could anyone forget Ayers?

[ElNono]

Do the stats. McVeigh and unibomber are statistical anomalies (outliers).

What does the statistics say about confirmed attempted terror attacks by muslims in America? I count 3 total, but I might be missing some.

From that perspective, McVeigh and Unabomber are not outliers, just simply another sub-group.

[ElNono]

This has become too high a price in loss of freedom.

Yet another instance of being for it before being against it.
What changed your mind on this now? Is it just the change of administration?

[Wild Cobra]

Yet another instance of being for it before being against it.
What changed your mind on this now? Is it just the change of administration?

I challenge you to look at my earliest posts regarding airline safety.

Show me where I changed my mind please.

[ElNono]

I challenge you to look at my earliest posts regarding airline safety.

Show me where I changed my mind please.

I'm pretty sure I remember them well. At least, I remember you starting bickering about it once the patdowns were put in place. I'll try to do a search later, although I don't know that you can search over a year old posts.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm pretty sure I remember them well. At least, I remember you starting bickering about it once the patdowns were put in place. I'll try to do a search later, although I don't know that you can search over a year old posts.

It will give you results over a year.

You can also used google and use site:spurstalk.com <search string>

I'm pretty sure I've been consistent on this. I will really be surprised of you can show otherwise.

[ElNono]

I'm pretty sure I've been consistent on this. I will really be surprised of you can show otherwise.

I blame them too. But for anyone to blame these invasive techniques on president Bush, or the republicans, are flat out wrong.

I knew I recalled something... just the regular partisan bickering, I suppose.

[mingus]

What does the statistics say about confirmed attempted terror attacks by muslims in America? I count 3 total, but I might be missing some.

From that perspective, McVeigh and Unabomber are not outliers, just simply another sub-group.

and over 20 have not been able to be carried out because of security we have now.

yeah and i don't have a source for that, heard it from a general on one of the news programs a couple months ago.

[ElNono]

and over 20 have not been able to be carried out because of security we have now.

yeah and i don't have a source for that, heard it from a general on one of the news programs a couple months ago.

I'm always pretty skeptic with such claims. Especially when you can't discern what's directly attributable to airport checkpoints vs actionable intelligence.

Don't get me wrong, I understand you're just the messenger passing it along, and I appreciate it.

I'm actually on the record that I have no problem with beefed up intelligence on passengers. From what I've read on the matter, there's substantially more value there.

[DarrinS]

What does the statistics say about confirmed attempted terror attacks by muslims in America? I count 3 total, but I might be missing some.

From that perspective, McVeigh and Unabomber are not outliers, just simply another sub-group.

Why don't you research the last 40 years of terrorism and figure out who matches the profile.

[Winehole23]

Why don't you stop hiding behind rhetorical questions and say what you mean?

[Wild Cobra]

Why don't you stop hiding behind rhetorical questions and say what you mean?

He did say what he meant. Did it go over your head?

[Winehole23]

Not at all. Perhaps Darrin will deign to share the research he alludes to.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

and over 20 have not been able to be carried out because of security we have now.

yeah and i don't have a source for that, heard it from a general on one of the news programs a couple months ago.

Given that military officers brainwash people for a living, I wouldn't really take a general's word for it when he tries to fear monger.

[Blake]

Do the stats. McVeigh and unibomber are statistical anomalies (outliers).

So it's possible for non-Muslims to commit terrorist acts.

More continued confirmation of your Islamophobia.

[DarrinS]

So it's possible for non-Muslims to commit terrorist acts.

More continued confirmation of your Islamophobia.

Silly me -- I thought this thread was about TSA screening and airport security. What group of people have been responsible for a large number of hijackings in the past 40 years. The data must be "islamophobic". Btw, I can't find a single instance of a hijacking by a 95 yr old woman or toddler (regardless of --gasp-- "ethnicity")