Spurs Clippers Trade Idea

[DPG21920]

RJ's contract extends beyond 2012. Kaman and Williams will both be FAs in 2012.

The Spurs can no longer afford the "security blanket" of using proven veterans at every position. It's amazing how everyone mentions they need YOUTH but when they get it, everyone seems scared to play them claiming they're unproven.

You can't have it both ways...

Where did I speak about youth or them being unproven? Mo Williams is the same age as TP and he is a complete choking, whinning front runner who is extremely mentally soft.

Kaman is two years younger than RJ, but it's not like he is "youth" or "unproven". He is a decent player who seems to be oft injured.

If you want to salary dump and rebuild, then sure, you can make the trade because the only thing good about the trade is their contracts.

From a basketball perspective this trade sucks. I wouldn't mind getting Kaman, but if the price is TP then it's silly to me if you still want to contend.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

From a basketball perspective this trade sucks. I wouldn't mind getting Kaman, but if the price is TP then it's silly to me if you still want to contend.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...

Name nba teams w/ decent centers.

Now, name nba teams w/ decent PGs.

You speak of Mo Williams as if he's a complete scrub. That's simply not true. Last year w/ the Clippers (one of the worst teams in the league), he averaged 15 ppg shooting 42% from the field, 88% from the FT line and 40% from 3. He also averaged 5.6 assists per game. Now, he's no TP but think about his level of excitement and enthusiasm playing for the Clippers. Say what you want about pro athletes but they are all human and those that play for lousier teams tend to show less interest. The fans and media kill guys for doing that but it is what it is.

You trade him AND Kaman to the Spurs and both of their production go up.

From a basketball standpoint, the Spurs lose at the PG position but they gain in the frontcourt w/ Kaman. He's no Dwight Howard or even Tyson Chandler but he's a 15 ppg/8rpg guy who is athletic enough to alter shots and cause opposing teams to think about driving to the lane.

Is it reasonable to believe Kaman will be that unhealthy again? Perhaps, but I take that risk for 1 year. Even if he is, at least the Spurs tried. Right now, the team is the same as last year (just one year older). Does anyone really think the simple addition of Leonard will be enough to contend w/ Dallas, LA, Boston and Miami for 7 games?

Plain and simple, the Spurs are as good a basketball team next year w/ this trade and are almost certainly a LOT better following the year. They will have had a year to find out who the next crop of superstars are, they will have tried to solve the front court production issue and they will have rid themselves of RJs contract and cut salary altogether from 2012 and beyond.

[Spurtacus]

Trade TP and we're done as contenders. Probably 2012 lottery bound.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Trade TP and we're done as contenders. Probably 2012 lottery bound.

Keep TP and we have the best record in the league (which equates to picking 30th or LAST), make the playoffs but lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

And, the contracts of RJ is still there and is that much more expensive.

Maybe the best thing for the Spurs would be the lottery. SE was a lottery pick. Robinson was as lottery pick. TD was 1st overall.

[DPG21920]

Well there you go. You seem to be finally agreeing that it's a bad basketball trade but good if they want to rebuild, which is what I said.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Well there you go. You seem to be finally agreeing that it's a bad basketball trade but good if they want to rebuild, which is what I said.

DPG I don't think it's a bad basketball trade from my prior post. Next year, as the Spurs are currently constructed (i.e. they make no more moves), they will most likely make the playoffs (about 95% chance). However, I give them about a 2% chance of being serious contenders to win it all.

If they make this trade, I think they have a good chance (about 75%) of making the playoffs in one of the top 4 seeds. However, I give them a better chance of winning it all (about 20%).

I honestly think the Spurs will be about the same w/ Mo Williams and Chris Kaman as the gain of Kaman cancels out the loss of TP.

The real question is whether or not Kaman remains healthy AND if the new offense can capitalize on frontcourt scoring as backcourt scoring will be less abundanct.

But, if it makes you happier, you can think whatever you want.

[ShoogarBear]

I don't like it for 2 reasons.

1st

Kaman last 4 seasons (TOTAL - 328 games)
2008 - 56 games
2009 - 31 games
2010 - 76 games
2011 - 32 games
TOTAL - 195 games (59%)

The guy is totally injury-prone.

Bingo. You get Kaman, you still need to find a center for the other 30 games.

[benefactor]

So we dump Parker and RJ for a center who is injured 60% of the time and a PG whose ppg, fg%, 3pt%, asts and FT% all drop in the playoffs.

No thanks.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Any other better (and REASONABLE) ideas of how the Spurs contend for the le? That's SERIOUSLY contend - not just have a great record and lose in the 1st or 2nd round.

[benefactor]

I don't think there are any...not realistically anyway. Acquiring a major piece means a team taking RJ off the Spurs hands and that just isn't going to happen. Even the proposed trade(as bad as it is) is borderline wishful thinking, as Sterling is incredibly cheap and would be very reluctant to take two long deals for his contracts that expire much sooner.

[Biggems]

The only Clipper I want is DeAndre Jordan...but I do not see us being able to get him from them....plus, he is due a huge payday soon, because someone his size and with his potential to break out always gets paid huge money....of course all of this depends on the outcome of the new CBA.

Still, DeAndre Jordan is who I want as our starting Center, with Splitter being our starting PF when Duncan retires.

Since we cannot get Jordan, I say we make a strong play for Aaron Gray. He is a legit 7 footer who plays with passion, isn't afraid to do the dirty work, and isn't afraid to play defense. We need someone with his toughness in the paint. Sign Gray and keep Blair out of Whataburger for an entire season and our 2nd unit on the frontline will be quite nice indeed.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

The only Clipper I want is DeAndre Jordan...but I do not see us being able to get him from them....plus, he is due a huge payday soon, because someone his size and with his potential to break out always gets paid huge money....of course all of this depends on the outcome of the new CBA.

Still, DeAndre Jordan is who I want as our starting Center, with Splitter being our starting PF when Duncan retires.

Since we cannot get Jordan, I say we make a strong play for Aaron Gray. He is a legit 7 footer who plays with passion, isn't afraid to do the dirty work, and isn't afraid to play defense. We need someone with his toughness in the paint. Sign Gray and keep Blair out of Whataburger for an entire season and our 2nd unit on the frontline will be quite nice indeed.

Not bad...

I'm still not sold Blair isn't anything more than an occasional role player. I know he was a 2nd round pick but his lack of size makes him less worthwhile in the Spurs system. He's more valuable in a trade to a team that can use his talents more effectively (it'd be a better move for him as well).

[joshdaboss]

It's certainly an interesting deal, that's for certain.

There are 3 reasons that I don't like it. #1) Getting rid of RJ leaves a huge void at SF. Leonard? Get real. #2) Kaman is solid as , but he's injury prone. #3) Mo Williams is strictly a jump shooter in the playoffs, he doesn't get to the rim at all. In the playoffs, you win by taking the highest percentage shots. Williams is a step in the wrong direction in that sense. It would be another story if he could defend at a high level(like Hill), but he can't.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

I don't think there are any...not realistically anyway. Acquiring a major piece means a team taking RJ off the Spurs hands and that just isn't going to happen. Even the proposed trade(as bad as it is) is borderline wishful thinking, as Sterling is incredibly cheap and would be very reluctant to take two long deals for his contracts that expire much sooner.

If an NBA le isn't a realistic possibility (only one I can think of would be somehow trading for Dwight Howard), then the real question becomes "how soon can the Spurs rebuild to be serious contenders?"

If that isn't within the next 4-5 years, then TP is of no use now. His value is simply for jersey and ticket sales. I'm not one for a bunch of pomp and ceremony - I like the Spurs of old, boring but effective.

I say trade make the trade of TP, RJ and Blair to the Clippers for MW and CK and 2012 1st round pick. TP gets to live in LA and hang out in Hollywood, RJ gets to score 16-18ppg again and not really have to worry about defense, the Clippers let DeAndre Jordan get more playing time, they have an exciting, scoring team and the Spurs get 2 expiring contracts and front court help.

Whenever CK is injured, move Duncan to center and Splitter to PF.

[DPG21920]

Just because someone can't come up with some magic trade to make the Spurs by all reasonable logic a legit contender, doesn't mean by default this one is good.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Just because someone can't come up with some magic trade to make the Spurs by all reasonable logic a legit contender, doesn't mean by default this one is good.

Very true, but standing pat for me isn't an option. You're either moving forward or falling behind.

[DPG21920]

Sure, I'm in the same boat, but the likelihood of the Spurs making a significant move with limited trade assets and a looming lockout aren't good. Same with a full scale blow up. I agree I'd rather go one way or the other, but it's not reasonable to expect the Spurs to keep taking on money to win (which is what they would have to do). They went all in with RJ and it didn't work. They won't keep digging that hole.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

You're probably right.

The only thing that really stinks in this whole mess is - lockout or not - RJ is a Spur until 2014 (unless he retires or is traded). If trading him now is difficult, it'll be damn near impossible the longer we wait.

TP is a great player but he's probably the only way out of RJs contract. My original point was that PGs in general are a lot easier to replace than centers. So, IMO, whenever you get a chance (that's just a CHANCE) at a decent center who has some upside still and might be able to contribute, you take that chance. If he's a bust (like RJ was) then at least the contract is shorter.

Another PG will be along shortly - trust me...

[DPG21920]

I'm not opposed to trading TP, as long as it means dumping RJ, but nothing I have read or heard makes it worth it. You can't trade TP just to dump RJ, but RJ has to be dumped if you trade TP (if that makes sense).

IMO, the Spurs in order to try and compete need to trade RJ straight up (or maybe throw in Blair) for someone with a similar contract to RJ that might be a better fit. That is the only real feasible way I can see the Spurs have a shot to contend.

The question is who?

[benefactor]

Very true, but standing pat for me isn't an option. You're either moving forward or falling behind.

The tone of the FO is that they are looking to get better and not stand pat. I don't think that this is going to happen by trading Parker even if they try...mostly because they are trying to unload RJ as condition of any trade that involves TP. As I said before, no team is going to do this...so moving forward is going to likely be series of smaller moves that can hopefully shore up what is already there. Sign another decent big, move Blair/Dice/pick for a big, etc.

The Spurs are stuck in a self-inflicted rut. They have assets that are desirable, but they are trying to fix the mistakes they made in the previous offseason at the same time. They can't do both and make themselves a contender in the process.

I think at the end of the day they will keep the Big 3 and do their best to improve the front line situation. I stick to what I said last season and what I've already mentioned this offseason...the Spurs just aren't playing the type of basketball that won them the rings and I don't see this coach heading back to that or this team acquiring the personnel necessary to get back there...especially with the young, up and coming teams that were already tough only getting tougher.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

That, my friend, would be the ideal situation. However, that is much more unlikely.

To me, there won't be any realistic trades for TP that make the team better - no other team is that stupid. The ONLY reason to trade TP is to get rid of RJ.

And while it might not seem fathomable now, the Spurs are far more likely to find someone who can play PG than they are to find someone to put up 18/9 from the PF or C position.

And, with the addition of a defensive SF who can hustle, get offensive rebounds and produce transition buckets, an All-Star PG isn't needed as badly.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

The tone of the FO is that they are looking to get better and not stand pat. I don't think that this is going to happen by trading Parker even if they try...mostly because they are trying to unload RJ as condition of any trade that involves TP. As I said before, no team is going to do this...so moving forward is going to likely be series of smaller moves that can hopefully shore up what is already there. Sign another decent big, move Blair/Dice/pick for a big, etc.

The Spurs are stuck in a self-inflicted rut. They have assets that are desirable, but they are trying to fix the mistakes they made in the previous offseason at the same time. They can't do both and make themselves a contender in the process.

I think at the end of the day they will keep the Big 3 and do their best to improve the front line situation. I stick to what I said last season and what I've already mentioned this offseason...the Spurs just aren't playing the type of basketball that won them the rings and I don't see this coach heading back to that or this team acquiring the personnel necessary to get back there...especially with the young, up and coming teams that were already tough only getting tougher.

I agree w/ everything you mentioned...

But that is the EXACT way teams become mired in mediocrity - never good enough to win but yet never bad enough to get draft pics or have enough cap room to acquire the better players.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...radeId=3z4o457

only trade i would want to happen with the clippers.

would only want TP traded if we could get d will or CP3 back.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

@benefactor and DPG - nice debate...

[Pauleta14]

It would be a great deal for Parker and a horrible one for the Spurs