Favorite ass beating your team has delivered

[DMC]

We forget how uncertain & fragile Magic was prior to '85. The '80 & '82 les were gimmie's. There was no strain there. They were for the most part forgone conclusions. It got very dicey for Magic after that. There was questions about his ability to hit the outside shot. There was questions about his ability to beat Boston. These questions were driven by Media to quell him, to compromise him so he would not triumph against Boston. It culminated in the Summer of '84 when he failed dramatically. Boston, in association with Media thought they'd vanquished him. They had not. We know that now. Because of Magic's trials & tribulations Bryant has not had to weather the chamber of horrors that Magic did. It's made Bryant's career easier, not as intense, and frankly not as rewarding and dramatic. Bryant hasn't had the crushing--mind numbing failures that Magic had. And he hasn't had the cathartic moments of victory that Magic did.

He also hasn't revealed the HIV that Magic had... though he did blow a Piston I hear.

[Giuseppe]

He also hasn't revealed the HIV that Magic had... though he did blow a Piston I hear.

Just thank Christ we got the prime's prime from Magic before the HIV hit. And if the man had an ounce of restraint he woulda shut his mouth until he had a proper chance to consider his options. But, a Laker (outside of Buss) has a difficult time shutting their mouth in times of upheaval.

1992 was not the infancy of HIV/AIDs. Magic acted as if he'd been diagnosed 5 years earlier.

[ezau]

You seem to believe being the number 1 option equates to being a leader. That simply ignores everything else done before the ball goes through the hoop.

As great as Kobe is, he is extremely inconsistent. If he were good on a regular basis, I would give him the recognition as the best laker. He wasn't as consistent as Kareem or Magic, and he was primarily a scorer. Magic was a PG that could score if needed, but it was part of his lower skillset. Kobe is easily the best scorer in Laker history, arguably as good of a scorer as MJ, but he simply isn't the best player. He doesn't do much playmaking, never put a lot of trust in his team and he doesn't make his team better. Kobe can carry a team, but Magic can lead a team; what you see as being better is up to your perception.

Laker fan getting in line

[pass1st]

Not sure what that means

[alamo50]

Shutting down the forum.

[stretch]

You seem to believe being the number 1 option equates to being a leader. That simply ignores everything else done before the ball goes through the hoop.

As great as Kobe is, he is extremely inconsistent. If he were good on a regular basis, I would give him the recognition as the best laker. He wasn't as consistent as Kareem or Magic, and he was primarily a scorer. Magic was a PG that could score if needed, but it was part of his lower skillset. Kobe is easily the best scorer in Laker history, arguably as good of a scorer as MJ, but he simply isn't the best player. He doesn't do much playmaking, never put a lot of trust in his team and he doesn't make his team better. Kobe can carry a team, but Magic can lead a team; what you see as being better is up to your perception.

Let's be fair now.

Kareem and especially Magic never had to face defenses or defenders that the NBA employs today. Not even close. Not remotely. If they had to face modern defenses, those 50-60+ FG% seasons would significantly reduce. They would still be great, but to compare their consistency to Kobe's consistency is partly unfair due to the considerably superior defense the NBA plays these days.

When I think of consistently, I think of a guy who at times hits all the shots he should, and other times misses most all of the shots he should. I don't see that being a major issue with Kobe. From what I see, his issue is that he gets hot at times and hits shots he shouldn't be taking, and then starts missing shots he shouldnt be taking. But generally, I don't see Kobe having a lot of nights where he is just missing open 18 footers or anything like that, shots that he should rarely miss. His issue stems more from incredibly poor shot selection, than from consistency, imo.

I don't disagree at all that Magic is a better natural floor leader than Kobe is, but Kobe is certainly capable of being a leader when need be, but his ability to put a team on his back and carry them, is a quality that Magic doesn't come remotely close to having on par with Kobe. Magic's style might have worked great in the 80s when no one played defense and everyone was playing SSOL style basketball, but in today's NBA, I'll take Kobe's ability to put a team on his back, put the clamps on the opposing teams best wing player while simultaneously breaking down elite defenses.

[stretch]

Because of Magic's trials & tribulations Bryant has not had to weather the chamber of horrors that Magic did. It's made Bryant's career easier, not as intense, and frankly not as rewarding and dramatic. Bryant hasn't had the crushing--mind numbing failures that Magic had. And he hasn't had the cathartic moments of victory that Magic did.

Are you joking???

Yeah, the whole rape trial deal and being a part of possibly the biggest upset in Finals history was minor.

Being blamed for running the most dominant player in NBA history out of town was a piece of cake.

Failing to lead your team to the playoffs? No pressure whatsoever.

That whole choking a 3-1 series lead was nothing at all.

Seeing his personal nemesis in Shaq getting a ring without him? lulz

Oh, and choking a massive lead to tie the Finals at 2-2, turning it to a 3-1 deficit, against your team's arch nemesis Celtics? Pfft. Nothing.

"Tell me how my ass taste!". Taste great, says Kobe. Now watch me win 2 straight, including beating the most hated Celtics, as I watch you try to piggyback more teams to les and fail miserably in the process.




I'm not a Laker fan by any means, but there have been very few athletes in sports history that have received the type of scrutiny that Kobe has gotten over his career, and still found a way to say a massive " you" to everyone in the end when he overcame every single one of them. I absolutely despise the Lakers, but aside from maybe Dirk (mainly because of my Mav fandom), there is no player in the NBA I have more respect for than Kobe.

[Giuseppe]

Are you joking???

Yeah, the whole rape trial deal and being a part of possibly the biggest upset in Finals history was minor.

Being blamed for running the most dominant player in NBA history out of town was a piece of cake.

Failing to lead your team to the playoffs? No pressure whatsoever.

That whole choking a 3-1 series lead was nothing at all.

Seeing his personal nemesis in Shaq getting a ring without him? lulz

Oh, and choking a massive lead to tie the Finals at 2-2, turning it to a 3-1 deficit, against your team's arch nemesis Celtics? Pfft. Nothing.

"Tell me how my ass taste!". Taste great, says Kobe. Now watch me win 2 straight, including beating the most hated Celtics, as I watch you try to piggyback more teams to les and fail miserably in the process.




I'm not a Laker fan by any means, but there have been very few athletes in sports history that have received the type of scrutiny that Kobe has gotten over his career, and still found a way to say a massive " you" to everyone in the end when he overcame every single one of them. I absolutely despise the Lakers, but aside from maybe Dirk (mainly because of my Mav fandom), there is no player in the NBA I have more respect for than Kobe.

tee, hee.

[Monostradamus]

Kobe quitsPERIOD

[pass1st]

Let's be fair now.

Kareem and especially Magic never had to face defenses or defenders that the NBA employs today. Not even close. Not remotely. If they had to face modern defenses, those 50-60+ FG% seasons would significantly reduce. They would still be great, but to compare their consistency to Kobe's consistency is partly unfair due to the considerably superior defense the NBA plays these days.

When I think of consistently, I think of a guy who at times hits all the shots he should, and other times misses most all of the shots he should. I don't see that being a major issue with Kobe. From what I see, his issue is that he gets hot at times and hits shots he shouldn't be taking, and then starts missing shots he shouldnt be taking. But generally, I don't see Kobe having a lot of nights where he is just missing open 18 footers or anything like that, shots that he should rarely miss. His issue stems more from incredibly poor shot selection, than from consistency, imo.

I don't disagree at all that Magic is a better natural floor leader than Kobe is, but Kobe is certainly capable of being a leader when need be, but his ability to put a team on his back and carry them, is a quality that Magic doesn't come remotely close to having on par with Kobe. Magic's style might have worked great in the 80s when no one played defense and everyone was playing SSOL style basketball, but in today's NBA, I'll take Kobe's ability to put a team on his back, put the clamps on the opposing teams best wing player while simultaneously breaking down elite defenses.

If you want to be fair you should also factor in how often the whistle is blown today compared to the 80s. Kobe has had a lot more FTA in 2000-2010 than Kareem or Magic. You can easily take off 4ppg from Kobe's averages and subsequently that would lead to a lower FG% since defenders that caused him to miss weren't called for it.

This made the defense of that era more aggressive, players didn't fear to put bodies on players and make outlandish steal attempts. True it wasn't as skilled as today, simply because players didn't have to put as much finesse in defense. Defense has to work around stricter officiating today, so it takes more effort to properly defend like it would in the 1980s. I would say there were more "effective" defenders in the 80s than today.

Kobe is inconsistent because he can go 5-10 from 3pt one day and 2-13 the next day. That is his greatest flaw, the thing that always stopped him from being a viable comparison to MJ. Does it make him suck? Nah, he's still one of the best guards to play the game. His iness is a bit of a flaw too, but it was only gamebreaking the final years of the Shaq/Kobe era. He always takes the same amount of shots these days, it's just they fall 1/3 of the time, miss 1/3 of the time and the rest is average.

I'm not saying he should be shooting 50% all the time, but his stats are skewed by the fact he has amazing games to cover up for lousy games. In his 35ppg season he would have strings of 40-50pt games and they covered up for his underachieving games.

When Kobe is hot, he's the best Laker ever, sure. When he's not, he's near the end of the top 10. That levels out for him being around the #3 spot.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe quitsPERIOD

No, no. No PERIOD. MJ quit too. Pippen quit too. Rodman quit too. The line of quitters is long & distinguished.

[stretch]

If you want to be fair you should also factor in how often the whistle is blown today compared to the 80s. Kobe has had a lot more FTA in 2000-2010 than Kareem or Magic. You can easily take off 4ppg from Kobe's averages and subsequently that would lead to a lower FG% since defenders that caused him to miss weren't called for it.

This made the defense of that era more aggressive, players didn't fear to put bodies on players and make outlandish steal attempts. True it wasn't as skilled as today, simply because players didn't have to put as much finesse in defense. Defense has to work around stricter officiating today, so it takes more effort to properly defend like it would in the 1980s. I would say there were more "effective" defenders in the 80s than today.

Kobe is inconsistent because he can go 5-10 from 3pt one day and 2-13 the next day. That is his greatest flaw, the thing that always stopped him from being a viable comparison to MJ. Does it make him suck? Nah, he's still one of the best guards to play the game. His iness is a bit of a flaw too, but it was only gamebreaking the final years of the Shaq/Kobe era. He always takes the same amount of shots these days, it's just they fall 1/3 of the time, miss 1/3 of the time and the rest is average.

I'm not saying he should be shooting 50% all the time, but his stats are skewed by the fact he has amazing games to cover up for lousy games. In his 35ppg season he would have strings of 40-50pt games and they covered up for his underachieving games.

When Kobe is hot, he's the best Laker ever, sure. When he's not, he's near the end of the top 10. That levels out for him being around the #3 spot.

This post pretty much proves you are simply a nostalgic fanboy, who's opinion means jack . A player could average 50/50 for an entire season, and you would be one of those guys that says "Wilt could average 100/200 for an entire season!!!!!!!"

[djohn2oo8]

No, no. No PERIOD. MJ quit too. Pippen quit too. Rodman quit too. The line of quitters is long & distinguished.

Kobe quit multiple times in the Finals. MJ? Nope.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe quit multiple times in the Finals. MJ? Nope.

MJ quit for an entire season, then quit almost the entire next season---only tried to sneak back in at the end so he didn't have to do all the work.

Uh, uh. Penny & Daddy took his pants down, & robbed his cookie.

Just like that.

[djohn2oo8]

MJ quit for an entire season, then quit almost the entire next season---only tried to sneak back in at the end so he didn't have to do all the work.

Uh, uh. Penny & Daddy took his pants down, & robbed his cookie.

Just like that.

Nope. Kobe quit in the playoffs, up 3-1 twice, in the finals twice, couldn't threepeat twice, nuh uh. Barea pulled his pants down, robbed his cookie, and made a billboard out of him.

[Monostradamus]

No, no. No PERIOD. MJ quit too. Pippen quit too. Rodman quit too. The line of quitters is long & distinguished.

Cubby, let's set the schtick aside and be real for one moment here. How can you possibly equate retirement with quitting? Jordan didn't quit, and at the very least, not in the Bean-o Bryant method of getting his ass beat by 30 every time his team is in an elimination game.

[Monostradamus]

Although to be completely fair, part of the reason the Lakers get their pushed in during elimination games is because of their success. Other teams hate the Lakers so much that when they finally have them by the balls, they show no mercy and run up the score as much as possible to savor every minute. Bean-o Bryant is usually on the bench early in the 4th quarter but the other team still has all their starters in bombing 3's.

[pass1st]

This post pretty much proves you are simply a nostalgic fanboy, who's opinion means jack . A player could average 50/50 for an entire season, and you would be one of those guys that says "Wilt could average 100/200 for an entire season!!!!!!!"

1. I said today has more skilled defenders
2. I said 80s didn't have to have skilled defenders

You clearly had no response to what I said and fell back to the classic "lol you don't know , you are sucking <insert player>'s " rebuttal. Why don't you explain why there is such a high FT deficiency and how that would affect a player's FG%? If you miss a shot and the defender gets the whistle, does your missed shot count against you?

Why don't you use a little logic and learn how the game evolved. I never said one era was superior to the other. I never said Magic would thrive in this era. I simply pointed at differences.

If you want to fold, do so in a non-embarrassing fashion, kid.

[Monostradamus]

1. I said today has more skilled defenders
2. I said 80s didn't have to have skilled defenders

You clearly had no response to what I said and fell back to the classic "lol you don't know , you are sucking <insert player>'s " rebuttal. Why don't you explain why there is such a high FT deficiency and how that would affect a player's FG%? If you miss a shot and the defender gets the whistle, does your missed shot count against you?

Why don't you use a little logic and learn how the game evolved. I never said one era was superior to the other. I never said Magic would thrive in this era. I simply pointed at differences.

If you want to fold, do so in a non-embarrassing fashion, kid.

Holy you've got over 1000 posts on this site? tbh I hadn't noticed a single post of yours until this thread.

[pass1st]

Holy you've got over 1000 posts on this site? tbh I hadn't noticed a single post of yours until this thread.

Likewise

[Giuseppe]

Cubby, let's set the schtick aside and be real for one moment here. How can you possibly equate retirement with quitting? Jordan didn't quit, and at the very least, not in the Bean-o Bryant method of getting his ass beat by 30 every time his team is in an elimination game.

Uh, uh, we're not going to quibble here. MJ quit, then tried to sneak back at the end of the season without doing training camp and all the drudgery. Just because Media at that time didn't tell "me" what was happening doesn't mean I/WE didn't know where the bear in the buckwheat. him. MJ quit. Only by the grace of the Orlando Magic, Daddy, Penny, et al did MJ get justifiably stopped at the border.

MJ may get away with that on other Boards, but, not on these Boards. Not as long as I exist.

[Monostradamus]

Uh, uh, we're not going to quibble here. MJ quit, then tried to sneak back at the end of the season without doing training camp and all the drudgery. Just because Media at that time didn't tell "me" what was happening doesn't mean I/WE didn't know where the bear in the buckwheat. him. MJ quit. Only by the grace of the Orlando Magic, Daddy, Penny, et al did MJ get justifiably stopped at the border.

MJ may get away with that on other Boards, but, not on these Boards. Not as long as I exist.

seriously? Cubby this is more re ed than you "I'm taking the Suns" prediction.

So because he didn't want to deal with the drudgery of a training camp and the grind of a regular season, Michael Jordan quits, then decides to play MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL and go through the drudgery of 100+ pointless minor league games, riding in buses with zitfaced teenagers throughout the godforsaken Midwest, being a complete mockery of the baseball world.........................only to stay retired for the entire NBA season and miss the playoffs anyways. Then he does it all over again before finally unveiling his master plan to get his ass beat by Orlando. All of that work done to avoid training camp, right?

Now Cubby, I realize you've just stumbled upon a goldmine of "Jordan quit too" schtick that you can now repeat ad nauseam on these forums, but honestly, you have to realize in your heart how stupid you sound.

[Giuseppe]

seriously? Cubby this is more re ed than you "I'm taking the Suns" prediction.

So because he didn't want to deal with the drudgery of a training camp and the grind of a regular season, Michael Jordan quits, then decides to play MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL and go through the drudgery of 100+ pointless minor league games, riding in buses with zitfaced teenagers throughout the godforsaken Midwest, being a complete mockery of the baseball world.........................only to stay retired for the entire NBA season and miss the playoffs anyways. Then he does it all over again before finally unveiling his master plan to get his ass beat by Orlando. All of that work done to avoid training camp, right?

Now Cubby, I realize you've just stumbled upon a goldmine of "Jordan quit too" schtick that you can now repeat ad nauseam on these forums, but honestly, you have to realize in your heart how stupid you sound.

You're y, Mono. I stated this opine when I first landed here years ago. It's not fresh. But, it is consistent.

I bear my cross of Kobe quitting in public. I never hid behind it. It's my religion.

But, by all that is holy every other member hereabout is going to bear their cross in the exact same manner.

Your regrets of MJ's behavior is your own lookout. He ain't arriving at the end of the season when all the hard work is done and then living the highlife of the playoffs. Not around me he ain't. He quit because he didn't want to put in the time that all the players had done:::training camp, exhibition games, the grind of 82 games, the physical toll that takes place. I just thank Christ it didn't work. He was thwarted and rejected. And he should have been.

MJ is a cheat and a quitter.

[Monostradamus]

He quit because he didn't want to put in the time that all the players had done:::training camp, exhibition games, the grind of 82 games, the physical toll that takes place.

of course. It's natural that he'd eliminate the wear and tear of 82 games while flying in private jets around the country and staying in plush 5 star hotels and trade it for 100+ games of minor league baseball, driving to games in a ty old bus and staying at a Motel 6. All in the name of eliminating the physical toll on his body.

[djohn2oo8]

You're y, Mono. I stated this opine when I first landed here years ago. It's not fresh. But, it is consistent.

I bear my cross of Kobe quitting in public. I never hid behind it. It's my religion.

But, by all that is holy every other member hereabout is going to bear their cross in the exact same manner.

Your regrets of MJ's behavior is your own lookout. He ain't arriving at the end of the season when all the hard work is done and then living the highlife of the playoffs. Not around me he ain't. He quit because he didn't want to put in the time that all the players had done:::training camp, exhibition games, the grind of 82 games, the physical toll that takes place. I just thank Christ it didn't work. He was thwarted and rejected. And he should have been.

MJ is a cheat and a quitter.

With 6 rings.