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Because there is a new Long John Silver's on Austin Highway [/TheWriter]
Why San Antonio is not a small NFL market
This is hogwash for one.
Just because Sam Houston setup his town east for better timber. San Antonio is the cradle and the glue for Texas.
We have one of the worlds BEST performing growing economies.
We are a technology center because of our past and present military operations. We have a big aerospace and aerospace medical industry in the city. We have the 2nd biggest domestic military hospital, and will have the largest soon because Reed is closing.
The stats they use for TV markets are BS. What they really think is that we have a lot of Mexican / Mexican American's that don't watch White man's TV.
But we know that's BS when it comes to Football. They are rabid fans that spend money on merchandise.
Don't belive everything you hear. Look at the Spurs for one. Any citizen that thinks we can't fully support a profitable NFL franchise is not cool. We did it with the Spurs and proved we where 1st class. Best fans with rabid spending on merchandise.
Anyone that says the Alamodome is not good for ball has never been to football game there. It's built for it. There are more bathrooms in the Alamodome per customr than any other NFL facility...
That's what counts.. fast beer.. fast piss.. more game.. more screaming and waves.. then an all night bender downtown...
Now if you think we are small market maybe you should look around. We are kicking ass and taking names economic wise.
Because there is a new Long John Silver's on Austin Highway [/TheWriter]
What you forgot to mention is how is Spurs merchandise selling outside of San Antonio. Has it reached Laker levels?
NFL people don't care about what is best for the Saints or SA, they just want money. SA citizens already have spent big bucks on NFL gear without a team, so they want to get more money from somebody else.
Yeah guys. Ignore the facts. Just look at all the in' urinals! LOOK AT 'EM! Damn, we're the biggest city in the world!
Anyways, San Antonio would be a small NFL market. It also would be a larger and more attractive NFL market than New Orleans.
I don't think Small is a good word.. It's the way they do thing to gather the metric of what is small and not..
It's like a political poll... how many people either hung up or just.. don't do polls?
This city is huge... you can't look at a picture of downtown. You have to look at the numbers. We are now one of the worlds largest "finance" centers as well.
Also we have water.. and LA is running out of water...
This will be a HUGE issue in future years...
Everything is bigger in Texas.
LA would be Mexico without our blood... screw them we where a State and a Country.. they where just slaves to the gold from teh get go...
I hear San Antonio has running water too.
You have to stack up San Antonio against the likes of Philadelphia, Detroit, and Houston if you want to claim that SA would not be a "small" NFL market.
FYI: San Antonio is one of the smallest NBA markets.
SA has no water, they have to swipe it from surrounding communities. This will run out, too, and the Carrizo/Wilcox doesn't replenish like the Edwards.
Surrounding communities? What communities? Our water supply comes from the Edwards Aquifer and that thing its drying up any time soon.
Gonzales County. Look it up. SAWS. Schertz-Cibilo. Bexar-met. All pumping water out of the Carrizo Aquifer and sending it to San Antonio.
SA's water surplus will disappear soon, while extending its water shortage malady to the rest of south Texas.
Last edited by SWC Bonfire; 10-21-2005 at 03:04 PM.
Soon? Quit being an alarmist asshole. It isn't.
And the majority of San Antonio's water supply comes from the Edwards aquifer.
Now all I need is a picture taken of your television set when a study of the Aquifer was showing, and I'm sold.
San Antonio has 1.7 million people in the metro area. That is a small market. Even if it were incredibly wealthy, it's a small market.
Its historical significance is profound. However, even if that were a material point, that's not a good compe ion to get into with New Orleans.Just because Sam Houston setup his town east for better timber. San Antonio is the cradle and the glue for Texas.
San Antonio has a booming economy right now. The city is the third-fastest growing in the nation. The metropolitan area is growing rapidly as well, though perhaps not quite as fast as Austin, Las Vegas, and Sacramento.We have one of the worlds BEST performing growing economies.
We are a technology center because of our past and present military operations. We have a big aerospace and aerospace medical industry in the city. We have the 2nd biggest domestic military hospital, and will have the largest soon because Reed is closing.
Calling it one of the best-performing economies in the world is inaccurate, given what's happening in Asia, but certainly the image of San Antonio as a sleepy economic backwater is, if not gone, fading fast.
But it's still a small market in NFL terms.
No, what it means is that when you leave the SA metropolitan area to the south and west, the areas become sparsely populated very quickly.The stats they use for TV markets are BS. What they really think is that we have a lot of Mexican / Mexican American's that don't watch White man's TV.
But we know that's BS when it comes to Football. They are rabid fans that spend money on merchandise.
And while SA's per-capita consumer spending is rocketing upward of late, it still trails the state average.
Supporting an NFL franchise has more to do with the corporate presence and the revenue-generating capacity of the facilities than it does with fan loyalty.Don't belive everything you hear. Look at the Spurs for one. Any citizen that thinks we can't fully support a profitable NFL franchise is not cool. We did it with the Spurs and proved we where 1st class. Best fans with rabid spending on merchandise.
San Antonio is developing that corporate presence rather quickly. As for the facilities...
The Alamodome is a good place to watch a football game for the average fan. But that is not what supports an NFL team. What supports an NFL team are the super-expensive facilities that rich people and corporations buy: luxury suites, club seats, premium parking and concessions, sponsorships, naming rights, etc.Anyone that says the Alamodome is not good for ball has never been to football game there. It's built for it. There are more bathrooms in the Alamodome per customr than any other NFL facility...
That's what counts.. fast beer.. fast piss.. more game.. more screaming and waves.. then an all night bender downtown...
The Alamodome will need extensive renovation to accomodate more of such things. But that is not a goal that is out of reach.
Even with all that... San Antonio is a small market. It still is most comparable to the Sacramentos and Indianapolises of the world, rather than middle markets like Kansas City or Cincinnati. The difference between past years and the current day is that S.A. can make the case that it is a viable small market.Now if you think we are small market maybe you should look around. We are kicking ass and taking names economic wise.
Yes, SA is viable as a NFL city and, more importantly, is much more attractive as a NFL market than New Orleans.
1.9 million but still a mid-size market.
I agree with alot of Extra Stout's points so I'll just chime in.
That's a bull statement. If you really think Mexican/Mexican American's don't watch American football you sure don't go out much. Why do you think the Cowboys get a 22 share no Sundays? Damn, go to Mexico and you will find a huge base of Cowboy fans. Talk about reachin'.
Yeah, yet we aren't as well known outside San Antonio, this years finals, the ratings were down from the previous year. Even against New York and New Jersey, TV ratings for the Finals were low. Also, the Spurs did it without busting the bank when it came to payroll.
I never knew that a business decision involving millions and possibly billions of dollars are all on the basis of bathroom facilities. I mean everyone has to go, it's a necessary part of life but I didn't think it was a key component of television contracts.
I said that the city is growing, economy is booming but not enough, we are definitly more attractive than New Orleans but I don't think it's enough to trump Los Angeles.
What math formula do we use for "market" ?
Because it should be a performance / profit.
If you look at the community age, resources, climate and long term economy. As well as geo political issues.
More soldiers come from this city than any other city. You think they don't like football.
(just various angles to attack going thru my mind)..
Let's show tag a fight.. let's go all out.. open fire guns a blazing.. something..
"SMALL MARKET THIS" signs everyone holds for national TV on the west side of the dome sideline . .. well you rotate them and it spells giant words. "Hey Tag small market this".
I don't buy it.. explain the formula to me again.
Look at the growth vector... it's nuts.. if you look at the map and what's going on.
It's not sound growth to keep calling cities like ours small ...
That's bull . That's now how you run a business. We deserve football... we pay our dues as a city to NFL. Jerry Jones has enough botox reserve. He does not need
us buying his crap and drinking his beer (adverts).
We been pimped out to him for too long.. time to leave the pigskin plantation and start our own farm.
^^^^ what he said
What dues have we paid? Two games, one sellout, is that the dues you are speaking of? High ratings for Cowboys games? Building a stadium that many feel are obselete, especially in the age of state-of-the-art corporate suites, that the teams do not share with each other.
What matters most is the TV markets for ratings, corporate sponsorships for suites and how much a city is going to pony up for a team.
You talk about attendence...Cleveland had a tradition of sellout stadiums...the Browns left in 1995. The Colts left Baltimore after years of a hard-core following in 1984, the Raiders left Oakland in 1981 after years of sellouts and winning seasons. Don't bring up attendance cause it truly doesn't mean a hill of beans!
Granted our economic base is growing but it's not enough right now.
The NFL is a different animal altogether, what are you going to boycott the NFL for calling San Antonio small market? The NFL is about now and tomorrow, not just tommorrow, San Antonio has done itself poorly in trying to lure the NFL, it's cosmetic approach to getting a team, fans apathy when it came to exhibition and other pro-football ventures - the city has failed in the past to prove itself as football worthy - why do you think the Alamodome was passed over when four teams moved in the mid-90s?
Now we are halfway there that we can bring the masses to the Alamodome for NFL football, we had a sellout this past Sunday, a good showing on Oct. 2 but now we have approximately 40,000 unsold tickets for the 12/24 game vs. Detroit. That game should have at most 20,000 fewer tickets available. If that Dec. 24 game is the least attended game, kiss the NFL goodbye cause San Antonio is not getting a second look.
We don't have metropolitan cities like Dallas, Washington D.C. or New York or have a state like Minnesota, Louisiana or Wisconsin for fan support. Its San Antonio and San Antonio alone and while we are growing economic wise, the impact has not reached it full potential.
For the NFL it's about now and what they can get now and that now is in Los Angeles.
Complain all you want but we are a small market, I don't like as much as you do but it is what it is. And if you want small market football to be successful then you better pray that the Jacksonville is successful cause if Jacksonville is successful then it shows that a small market city to run with the big markets. Right now Jacksonville has to cover up sections of Alltell Stadium to avoid blackouts.
If the NFL comes to San Antonio (and I am in favor of that, for the record) then you better hope the owners put suites in the same pie as the television contract cause then all 32 teams (or 34) will get a piece of the TV contract and the proftis from the suites. I've heard rumor of that idea floating but realistically, it may not come about.
By "market," typically I think they take:
1) The number of people in the area times the average per capita income
2) The number of TV households
3) The number of people in the income bracket most likely to buy tickets
Then there's the facility issues. A top-notch facility in a smaller market is better than an antiquated facility in a larger market.
Certainly San Antonio is one of the beneficiaries of the ongoing demographic shift to the South and the West. And it's coming of age in terms of bringing cutting-edge high-paying jobs.If you look at the community age, resources, climate and long term economy.
Do note that San Antonio is not alone in this. Many cities in the South and West continue to experience strong growth in terms of population and economics. DFW is getting up towards 6 million and probably will pass up Philadelphia and Boston before long. Houston has surged past 5 million. Austin is seeing stratospheric growth, and may even grow larger than San Antonio by mid-century.
I know there are a lot of people in any city who don't get to travel much and see what's happening in the rest of the country or even the rest of the state. So, when you see an exciting boom in San Antonio, you may think it's happening in a vacuum.
And it's not just Texas. Atlanta keeps growing -- it's surged past 4.5 million. Miami-Ft.Lauderdale-West Palm Beach is somewhere around 7 million now. Raleigh-Durham and Greensboro each are getting towards 1.5 million. Then there's the West. Denver is getting to the point where soon there willbe uninterrupted devlopment all the way from Ft. Collins to Colorado Springs. Portland now has to be considered a middle market with 2.5 million. It's about as large as St. Louis now. Salt Lake City, Sacramento, and Las Vegas are markets comparable in size to San Antonio that are seeing the same surges in size and wealth that S.A. is seeing. Even Leviathian L.A. keeps growing.
All this is happening at the expense of the Northeast and Midwest.
Well, most soldiers aren't earning luxury suite money. And the allure of NFL football is pretty much universal. It's not a question of how much a city likes the NFL. It's a question of how much money it generates for the team.More soldiers come from this city than any other city. You think they don't like football.
Is San Antonio compe ive in those terms? Yes. Would it still be towards the bottom in terms of market size among NFL teams? Certainly.
Being a "small market" for the NFL actually is an upgrade for S.A. In the past, it would have been considered an unacceptable market.
And this is a recent thing. Even ten years ago, demographically S.A. compared
unfavorably against New Orleans or even Indianapolis. Right before Katrina hit, S.A. was smoking New Orleans and was becoming comparable to Indy.
S.A. is growing fast. Lots of other places are growing fast or faster. So S.A. is still ranked in the mid-thirties, although it's ahead of some existing NFL markets that are decaying.I don't buy it.. explain the formula to me again.
In terms of pro sports, today any market with less than $80 billion or so in annual income is considered "small." S.A. I think runs around $65 billion or so. Ten years ago that was maybe $35 billion. It's wonderful for the city. But the bar keeps rising because many other cities also are enjoying success.Look at the growth vector... it's nuts.. if you look at the map and what's going on.
It's not sound growth to keep calling cities like ours small ...
Well, nobody deserves football. And getting a sense of en lement before even getting a team is dangerous. It can lead to having people sit back and wait for they think they already deserve rather than working hard for the deal. With the right package of incentives and with a consistent fight, S.A. can and should end up with a team sooner rather than later.We deserve football... we pay our dues as a city to NFL. Jerry Jones has enough botox reserve. He does not need
us buying his crap and drinking his beer (adverts).
We been pimped out to him for too long.. time to leave the pigskin plantation and start our own farm.
Look, L.A. obviously is a more attractive destination. But they also were more attractive than Houston four years ago. The difference is that Houston closed the deal with an ownership group, strong corporate support, and a great stadium while the highrollers in L.A. were still holding their s.
If somebody in L.A. gets a stadium built, L.A. will get a team, period. But lots of potential ownership groups over the past five years in L.A. have been long on promises and short on delivery. If the citizenry of S.A. wants a team bad enough and is willing to foot the bill or find some other way to finance it, good things will happen, regardless of Paul Tagliabue's rhetoric.
At that point, whether San Antonio is a "small" market will be academic. It will have that team it's wanted so long.
Hey if Green Bay can have an NFL team why not San Antonio? Green Bay is smaller than San Antonio. But to tell you the truth I don't want the Saints to move to San Antonio because then FOX would start showing Saints games here instead of the Cowboys, and that would suck. If San Antonio does get an NFL team I hope they put them in the AFC so they can be shown on CBS and not on FOX.
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