Should the Lakers Throw in the Towel?

[Killakobe81]

here's an official rebuttal from an elite Laker fan:

Let me tell you why this strategy sucks.

1. We don't have a PG that can make those entry passes
2. Bynum can't handle double teams(they send it every time)
3. We do not have outside shooters
4. Our movement off-ball is absolutely terrible
5. No spacing with Metta Fisher and Barnes all getting a lot of minutes


This happens every game. Our first option is to always go inside, we either:

1. Can't make the pass - ends with Kobe bail out

If by some miracle we make the pass

2. Bynum is double teamed, and either of the following happens:

a) He turns the ball over
b) He attacks the double and misses the shot
c) He makes the wrong pass and we don't get an open shot - Kobe bail out
d) He makes the right pass, but it's to Metta/Fisher/Barnes/Blake and they miss

Assuming that it's actually Pau that we're going inside to, if by some miracle we make the pass

3. Pau is single covered, and

a) Holds onto the ball for 10 seconds after jab stepping a million times and then passes it to Kobe for a bail out shot

b) Shoots a jumper falling away from the basket
c) Passes it out to Metta/Fisher/Barnes/Blake and they miss
d) Gets the ball slapped away


That's what happens when the offense is ran through our bigs.

read that on LG. and it is correct. With a better PG, the system would work but Stern nixed tnhat. Like i told DPG, we are not contenders. 2nd round is the ceiling for this team with no trades ...

[DeadlyDynasty]

Holy ! A post about actual basketball from Kool! Mark your calendars everyone.

The pinking is working, whether he realizes it or not. That post was not far off, either. We have zero perimeter talent outside of Kobe, and Bynum is still a noob when it comes to double teams.

[baseline bum]

Where's the offensive talent outside of the Big 3? I'd love to know.

In a decent offense those big 3 got lots of good shots for the rest of the team. I seriously can't understand a Laker fan defending Mike Brown as if this is the first time he has installed a completely dysfunctional offense.

[ChrisRichards]

Holy ! A post about actual basketball from Kool! Mark your calendars everyone.

So, true. I was reading that and I have to refresh my screen a couple of times make sure my eyes werent playing tricks on me.

[DPG21920]

Are you convinced the Lakers would be much better off with Brian Shaw? Because Mike Brown is that bad? Or because Brian Shaw would not have changed much of the philosophy under Phil Jackson? Or other reasons? I don't think any of us know how good of a head coach Brian Shaw would be.

I know this wasn't direct towards me, but even though we don't know what Brian Shaw would be, we do know what Mike Brown is. I think it's pretty clear he has no control of the team and garners zero respect. From Kobe's reaction to the hiring all the way to a guy like Ron Artest making the comments he does very publicly, no one seems to respond to him.

Beyond that, I think it's a huge undertaking to implement a new system in a shortened season with very little training camp and next to zero practice time. I think having Shaw would solve both of these problems and that alone would make it a better team this year.

[DeadlyDynasty]

In a decent offense those big 3 got lots of good shots for the rest of the team. I seriously can't understand a Laker fan defending Mike Brown as if this is the first time he has installed a completely dysfunctional offense.

I'm not defending Mike Brown. he sucks, we all know.

I seriously can't understand how you think the chicken we have on the perimeter can consistently shoot well. Methinks you haven't been watching

[DPG21920]

read that on LG. and it is correct. With a better PG, the system would work but Stern nixed tnhat. Like i told DPG, we are not contenders. 2nd round is the ceiling for this team with no trades ...

Kool is copying posts from LG?

Also, that post is wrong. It slams Bynum and Pau and that is not accurate because more often than not, they score or do something well as evidenced by their excellent FG%.

[Killakobe81]

In a decent offense those big 3 got lots of good shots for the rest of the team. I seriously can't understand a Laker fan defending Mike Brown as if this is the first time he has installed a completely dysfunctional offense.

Bum you my nicca,
But have you actually watched this team play? Artest is 17% on 3's. The offense as as it maybe is giving Fisher, Artest, Murphy, Blake and Barnes plenty of open looks. The problem is, the only guys that can hit those Kapono Murphy and Godlouck ALL SUCK at defense. The roster is flawed. Without good shooters open looks are useless.

[Killakobe81]

Kool is copying posts from LG?

Also, that post is wrong. It slams Bynum and Pau and that is not accurate because more often than not, they score or do something well as evidenced by their excellent FG%.

That is FG% built on games against the Raptors (like today) Tyson pushed Bynum's in, and Milsap has done the same to Pau. Of course they shoot a good percentage. But Pau often does as much damage to the flow of the offense as Kobe does. Pau faces up, and spends so much time "reading" the defense, even hubie pointed that out. He needs to do a better job of just making a quick move or just move the ball ...

[DPG21920]

I'm not defending Mike Brown. he sucks, we all know.

I seriously can't understand how you think the chicken we have on the perimeter can consistently shoot well. Methinks you haven't been watching

What we don't understand is how excellent 3PT shooters all of the sudden turn into bad ones when they come to LA? Blake, Kapono, Murph & even the new guy Goudelock can all shot and the first 3 were definitely above average 3PT shooters before LA. That leads me to believe it's on the coach not utilizing them enough or the fact they can't get into a rhythm playing with Kobe. There is no reason all very good 3PT shooters crumble like that especially when you have two legit bigs that command doubles.

Even Artest and Barnes have consistently knocked down 3 pointers in multiple seasons. So I don't buy the excuse that "LA has no shooters".

[Killakobe81]

Kool is copying posts from LG?

Also, that post is wrong. It slams Bynum and Pau and that is not accurate because more often than not, they score or do something well as evidenced by their excellent FG%.

Could be his for all I know ...

Just know I saw it on LG and thought it was accurate ...

[DPG21920]

That is FG% built on games against the Raptors (like today) Tyson pushed Bynum's in, and Milsap has done the same to Pau. Of course they shoot a good percentage. But Pau often does as much damage to the flow of the offense as Kobe does. Pau faces up, and spends so much time "reading" the defense, even hubie pointed that out. He needs to do a better job of just making a quick move or just move the ball ...

You didn't answer my question though, is Kool copying post from LG and bringing them here?

[JamStone]

Shaw certainly was an unknown, but better to give a chance to a promising assistant running an offense that brought the team 5 rings than hire someone who was pretty awful in his other gig. That team is way too talented to be scoring 93PPG. Sure, losing Odom is a kick in the nuts, but otherwise it's the same team that won 57 games last season and was an offensive juggernaut.

Shannon Brown is another loss that's underestimated. He's not great or anything, but the Lakers didn't replace him with another wing player off the bench. I think his loss is part of the reason Kobe logs so many minutes, not just the loss of Odom. Then with the injury of Steve Blake, that puts even more pressure on Kobe and the need to use guys like Andrew Goudelock (granted he's shot the ball well) and Darius Morris, not to mention more reliance on Fisher producing. I don't think it's just the loss of Odom.

Also two of the losses at the beginning of the season were without Bynum and both were close losses that could have been different had Bynum played. At 17-10, they'd have the third best record in the West and would there be as much discussion of their demise? Maybe, but probably not.

One of the major problems with the Lakers this year has been their performances on the road. Lakers average over 95 points on over 47% shooting at home versus just over 90 points and under 43% shooting on the road. I think not having an experienced veteran off the bench is a big part of that.

[DPG21920]

That is FG% built on games against the Raptors (like today) Tyson pushed Bynum's in, and Milsap has done the same to Pau. Of course they shoot a good percentage. But Pau often does as much damage to the flow of the offense as Kobe does. Pau faces up, and spends so much time "reading" the defense, even hubie pointed that out. He needs to do a better job of just making a quick move or just move the ball ...

This is just flat out not true and it's a case of spoiled Laker fan (no offense, you should be spoiled when your team is always stacked) distorting reality. The fact is it's their averages. The bigs have constantly put up eye popping production in nearly every game combined, many times with it being evenly distributed. They also bail LA out constantly on Kobe misses with put backs. How many game winners or last second shots, just this year, has Kobe missed and Bynum put back in at a critical moment?

They aren't just beating up weak front lines, they are playing very well against pretty much everyone.

[baseline bum]

That is FG% built on games against the Raptors (like today) Tyson pushed Bynum's in, and Milsap has done the same to Pau. Of course they shoot a good percentage. But Pau often does as much damage to the flow of the offense as Kobe does. Pau faces up, and spends so much time "reading" the defense, even hubie pointed that out. He needs to do a better job of just making a quick move or just move the ball ...

Gasol looks lost in this offense, whereas he was an assassin in the triangle. They might as well trade him right now if they're not going to end the Mike Brown experiment.

[BRHornet45]

LA threw in the towel the minute they picked Mike Brown over Brian Shaw.

This

Son you gotta love affirmative action in sports. Les Miles allowed it to stand in LSU's way of another national championship and the Lakers threw in the towel and said "well Gasol gave us 2 more les and hopefully we can land Howard to give Kobe more undeserved credit for our success, but let's go ahead and hire Mike Brown over the hundreds of better options out there so that everyone will give us a pat on the back and say we are doing the right thing."

[Koolaid_Man]

You didn't answer my question though, is Kool copying post from LG and bringing them here?

more plots, sub-plots and drama I like

[Killakobe81]

What we don't understand is how excellent 3PT shooters all of the sudden turn into bad ones when they come to LA? Blake, Kapono, Murph & even the new guy Goudelock can all shot and the first 3 were definitely above average 3PT shooters before LA. That leads me to believe it's on the coach not utilizing them enough or the fact they can't get into a rhythm playing with Kobe. There is no reason all very good 3PT shooters crumble like that especially when you have two legit bigs that command doubles.

Even Artest and Barnes have consistently knocked down 3 pointers in multiple seasons. So I don't buy the excuse that "LA has no shooters".

That has been a problem BEFORE kobe or when as many here have pointed out back when shaq was the the main man on the Lakers.

shooters/scorers who lost their stroke in Los Angeles:

1. Mitch Richmond
2. Terry Teagle
3. Glen Rice
4. Lindsey Hunter
5. J.R. Rider
6. Artest
7. Rick fox


And Kapono and the rookie Godlock are still shooting fine. Like i said their issue is they give up whatever they score on the other end. Bynum though a fine paint defender doesnt cover ground like Dwight where he can make up for slowfooted white guys getting beat on the perimeter.

[JamStone]

I know this wasn't direct towards me, but even though we don't know what Brian Shaw would be, we do know what Mike Brown is. I think it's pretty clear he has no control of the team and garners zero respect. From Kobe's reaction to the hiring all the way to a guy like Ron Artest making the comments he does very publicly, no one seems to respond to him.

Beyond that, I think it's a huge undertaking to implement a new system in a shortened season with very little training camp and next to zero practice time. I think having Shaw would solve both of these problems and that alone would make it a better team this year.

Don't really disagree, but one point of clarity. The decision to hire Mike Brown over Brian Shaw was made back in May, before there was any certainty there would be a shortened season with little training camp and zero practice time. Those weren't major issues back in May.

[DPG21920]

Shannon Brown is another loss that's underestimated. He's not great or anything, but the Lakers didn't replace him with another wing player off the bench. I think his loss is part of the reason Kobe logs so many minutes, not just the loss of Odom. Then with the injury of Steve Blake, that puts even more pressure on Kobe and the need to use guys like Andrew Goudelock (granted he's shot the ball well and Darius Morris). I don't think it's just the loss of Odom.

Also two of the losses at the beginning of the season were without Bynum and both were close losses that could have been different had Bynum played. At 17-10, they'd have the third best record in the West and would there be as much discussion of their demise? Maybe, but probably not.

One of the major problems with the Lakers this year has been their performances on the road. Lakers average over 95 points on over 47% shooting at home versus just over 90 points and under 43% shooting on the road. I think not having an experienced veteran off the bench is a big part of that.

Jam, this is just Laker fan over-reaction to their team not being the clear cut favorite. Their roster certainly has flaws, but it's a new coach, new system and somewhat new team in a lockout year. Bumps are to be expected. The fact is, like a few have said, they have 2 top 10 bigs and Kobe. They are dangerous. They also have guys who are known shooters.

[DeadlyDynasty]

What we don't understand is how excellent 3PT shooters all of the sudden turn into bad ones when they come to LA? Blake, Kapono, Murph & even the new guy Goudelock can all shot and the first 3 were definitely above average 3PT shooters before LA. That leads me to believe it's on the coach not utilizing them enough or the fact they can't get into a rhythm playing with Kobe. There is no reason all very good 3PT shooters crumble like that especially when you have two legit bigs that command doubles.

Even Artest and Barnes have consistently knocked down 3 pointers in multiple seasons. So I don't buy the excuse that "LA has no shooters".

Of course you don't buy it. Your agenda's been pretty clear for years, so it's hard to take you seriously. You said the same when the Lakers were winning les, so you're just steadfastly sticking to your guns now that the team is older/downgraded.

If you think McRoberts, Murphy, Blake, Fisher, Artest, and Barnes cons ute adequate perimeter talent, then perhaps you should follow a sport that's a little more simple--like soccer.

I hope that helps.

[Koolaid_Man]

This

Son you gotta love affirmative action in sports. Les Miles allowed it to stand in LSU's way of another national championship and the Lakers threw in the towel and said "well Gasol gave us 2 more les and hopefully we can land Howard to give Kobe more undeserved credit for our success, but let's go ahead and hire Mike Brown over the hundreds of better options out there so that everyone will give us a pat on the back and say we are doing the right thing."

you also gotta love gay deacons - what do you say BR..or should I call you Deacon Williams)and preach the word.

[DPG21920]

Don't really disagree, but one point of clarity. The decision to hire Mike Brown over Brian Shaw was made back in May, before there was any certainty there would be a shortened season with little training camp and zero practice time. Those weren't major issues back in May.

I normally would agree with you, but many around here seem to think these owners knew there would be a lockout. That's obviously hard to prove, but after reading up on the issue, it seems that way.

[DPG21920]

Of course you don't buy it. Your agenda's been pretty clear for years, so it's hard to take you seriously. You said the same when the Lakers were winning les, so you're just steadfastly sticking to your guns now that the team is older/downgraded.

If you think McRoberts, Murphy, Blake, Fisher, Artest, and Barnes cons ute adequate perimeter talent, then perhaps you should follow a sport that's a little more simple--like soccer.

I hope that helps.

Nice try, I'm talking basketball today.

[JamStone]

Jam, this is just Laker fan over-reaction to their team not being the clear cut favorite. Their roster certainly has flaws, but it's a new coach, new system and somewhat new team in a lockout year. Bumps are to be expected. The fact is, like a few have said, they have 2 top 10 bigs and Kobe. They are dangerous. They also have guys who are known shooters.

The Lakers are not a sub 500 team. It's not like they're the Knicks pre-Lin era. They have struggled, most notably on the road. But they still have a winning record, and they haven't played that horribly. That's with THE LEAGUE'S WORST BENCH. I think that's more of an issue than the coaching and new system. Good to great teams need production off the bench to have success. The Lakers aren't getting it. And beyond those top 3 guys, Kobe, Pau, and Bynum, they are getting little to no production at two positions (PG and SF). Their depth of talent is the biggest problem they have. And I'm not arguing Mike Brown is doing a good job. But there are more serious issues than him.