Ranking small forwards

[Giuseppe]

would've

tee, hee.

[JamStone]

I'll rank my top 5 from that list.

1. LeBron
2. T-Mac
3. Grant Hill
4. Pippen
5. Durant

I'd consider T-Mac either a SG or a SF. He played pretty much each perimeter position. Although he was often listed as a SG earlier in his career, I don't really see much of a difference in positions when it comes to him. And at his peak, he was ridiculously good. Durant has some time to climb in the rankings so I kept him down for now. Pippen was really good but I don't regard him as highly as many others do. I know he had a great 1993-94 season in a generally weak East, but I still don't put too much stock in him as a franchise player. In his peak, Grant Hill was crazy good. Not the scorer LeBron is, but about as good an all around player in the other areas of the game, playmaking, defense, rebounding.

[HarlemHeat37]

Pippen is one of the most overrated legends in NBA history IMO, but I'd still take him at #2, although it's close..

[Giuseppe]

^Without him, MJ would still be driftin' in the winds at, Kobe: 5 - MJ: O.

[Killakobe81]

I'll rank my top 5 from that list.

1. LeBron
2. T-Mac
3. Grant Hill
4. Pippen
5. Durant

I'd consider T-Mac either a SG or a SF. He played pretty much each perimeter position. Although he was often listed as a SG earlier in his career, I don't really see much of a difference in positions when it comes to him. And at his peak, he was ridiculously good. Durant has some time to climb in the rankings so I kept him down for now. Pippen was really good but I don't regard him as highly as many others do. I know he had a great 1993-94 season in a generally weak East, but I still don't put too much stock in him as a franchise player. In his peak, Grant Hill was crazy good. Not the scorer LeBron is, but about as good an all around player in the other areas of the game, playmaking, defense, rebounding.

Co-signed. Hill was a poor man's Lebron. He had the skill set and was truly athletic in his prime ..but Lebron is on another planet as an athlete ...Nique had better hops but not the handle or speed of Lebron. Pippen had the musculature but was not as explosive as James. McGrady probably is closest offensively and was a better shooter but Lebron was stronger and a much better defender.
Nique was a beast who is getting underrated in this thread ...tbh

[Arcadian]

OK, I'm gonna expand the conversation a bit. Since everyone is taking James at #1, do you think he will surpass Bird or Julius Erving?

I should clarify. By "surpass" I mean do you think he is a better player than [insert player] at his peak?

[Killakobe81]

OK, I'm gonna expand the conversation a bit. Since everyone is taking James at #1, do you think he will surpass Bird or Julius Erving?

I should clarify. By "surpass" I mean do you think he is a better player than [insert player] at his peak?

Hasn't passed him yet but he nabs at least 2 les he has a compelling case as greatest SF

[Arcadian]

I really don't think winning championships is a large determinant in this conversation. After all, we are talking about peak individual performances. So regardless of what teammates they had, regardless of their career achievements, but just focusing on pure basketball skill/greatness (whatever you want to call it) at one moment in time, I'm asking you to pick one as better than the other. So which is it?

[HarlemHeat37]

Dr. J's peak was in the ABA, so it isn't comparable IMO..

As a regular season player, Lebron is better than Bird..Bird is arguably the clutchest player in NBA history, while Lebron has choked in the Finals, which is currently the difference in their peak performance IMO..

[ambchang]

^Without him, MJ would still be driftin' in the winds at, Kobe: 5 - MJ: O.

What type of people qualify wins again?

[ambchang]

Marion is getting massively overrated based on his stats. He could not create a shot, his entire offense was based off of Nash's creation. He is the type of player who could be easily shut down with enough attention (see Spurs with Bowen).

His defense was also massively overrated. Everybody talking about him being able to cover anybody, but name one single elite player he shut down/slowed down in the playoffs. I can't think of a single person.

As for TMac, another stat stuffer. Though his Magic sucked, but that team won what, 20 games in one of those seasons? Just flat out embarrassing.

[NewcastleKEG]

I really don't think winning championships is a large determinant in this conversation. After all, we are talking about peak individual performances. So regardless of what teammates they had, regardless of their career achievements, but just focusing on pure basketball skill/greatness (whatever you want to call it) at one moment in time, I'm asking you to pick one as better than the other. So which is it?

One moment in time?

So one season, one month, one week? The simplest answer would be look at which of them won regular season or finals MVP & compare/contrast the numbers

[Killakobe81]

I really don't think winning championships is a large determinant in this conversation. After all, we are talking about peak individual performances. So regardless of what teammates they had, regardless of their career achievements, but just focusing on pure basketball skill/greatness (whatever you want to call it) at one moment in time, I'm asking you to pick one as better than the other. So which is it?

Forgot about setting ... I would lean towards Lebron because he is such a great two way player now ...

[Giuseppe]

What type of people qualify wins again?

Pussies & assholes.

[JamStone]

Marion is getting massively overrated based on his stats. He could not create a shot, his entire offense was based off of Nash's creation. He is the type of player who could be easily shut down with enough attention (see Spurs with Bowen).

His defense was also massively overrated. Everybody talking about him being able to cover anybody, but name one single elite player he shut down/slowed down in the playoffs. I can't think of a single person.

I didn't read the entire thread but seems like a lot of people aren't praising Marion very much. And while Nash helped make Marion a much more efficient offensive player, Marion was still a 17-18 point scorer before Nash joined the Suns. He has an awkward offensive game because he's mostly a junk scorer, but it wasn't completely reliant on Nash. Nash just made him better.

As for TMac, another stat stuffer. Though his Magic sucked, but that team won what, 20 games in one of those seasons? Just flat out embarrassing.

He basically single-handedly carried those Orlando Magic teams his first 3 seasons there. With all of those Grant Hill injuries, T-Mac was playing with Mike Miller and guys like Darrell Armstrong, Pat Garrity, Andrew DeClerq, and Bo Outlaw as starters and took them to the playoffs those first 3 seasons. T-Mac was a monster his first few seasons with the Magic.

[ambchang]

I didn't read the entire thread but seems like a lot of people aren't praising Marion very much. And while Nash helped make Marion a much more efficient offensive player, Marion was still a 17-18 point scorer before Nash joined the Suns. He has an awkward offensive game because he's mostly a junk scorer, but it wasn't completely reliant on Nash. Nash just made him better.

My position is that just having Marion in the conversation is overrating him. He was a junk scorer, a better version of a Cedric Ceballos if you will, on the offensive side of the ball. He cannot create his own shot at all. He is a great player to have on the team, but he is not a 1st or 2nd option type of player, like all the other players listed.

As for defense, Marion was very reliant on this freakish athletic ability, but have little skills in those department. He can guard every type of player, but wasn't all that effective throughout. And to say that he was even a good defensive player because of his versatility is, imo, overrating him.

He basically single-handedly carried those Orlando Magic teams his first 3 seasons there. With all of those Grant Hill injuries, T-Mac was playing with Mike Miller and guys like Darrell Armstrong, Pat Garrity, Andrew DeClerq, and Bo Outlaw as starters and took them to the playoffs those first 3 seasons. T-Mac was a monster his first few seasons with the Magic.

Not saying TMac had an awesome supporting cast, because he didn't, but Pippen carried a team with Grant, Pete Myers, and Bill Cartwright/Stacey King as starters to the 2nd round of the playoffs two years in a row. Nique, Lebron, and Hill all had mediocre supporting casts, but they were able to carry the teams.

Being able to carry a weak team should be a pre-requisite to a top 3 ranking of SF in the last 2 decades.