Why are liberals so passionate about protecting the 1st amendment

[Marcus Bryant]

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This is another amendment with a preamble, as in the ideal stated first, followed by the way the 'goal' will be reached.

[Yonivore]

I had presumed that you meant Universities that simply refused to schedule conservative speakers to appear on campus.

Knowing what you're talking about, though, I have to say that there is a marked difference between students shouting down a speaker they disagree with and a University engaging in viewpoint discrimination against Conservatives, as you initially posited.

When students act and protest with sufficient effect to shut down a speaking engagement, there is no state action -- in fact, if the University stopped protests that are simply vocal protests and do not violate any University rules of conduct, the University would violate the First Amendment rights of the protesting students.

If liberal speakers aren't shouted down, perhaps conservative students should reconsider their tactics. If liberal students choose to be uncouth and happen to be successful in that effort, it doesn't make the University a viewpoint discriminator -- it perhaps evidences the majority belief on campus (in the same way that an election result evidences the majority belief in a district).

So, basically, you're saying that conservatives should just be less civil?

And, your initial impression was correct, I believe some state-supported universities engage in viewpoint discrimination.

[FromWayDowntown]

So, basically, you're saying that conservatives should just be less civil?

And, your initial impression was correct, I believe some state-supported universities engage in viewpoint discrimination.

Not at all. I'm just saying that free speech works both ways. If liberals are able to push conservative speakers off campus, then either their means for resisting particular speakers are working ,or their viewpoint is prevailing on campus; perhaps both. In any event, conservative speakers who enter onto college campuses can't expect (nor should they expect) to exist in a coccoon, removed and protected from the various political viewpoints that college students have.

You seem to posit that the speakers should somehow be immunized from any possibility that they will be met with resistance. I'm saying that such a concept is anathema to the notion of free speech -- much more problematic to me than a concern about speakers with particular viewpoints being shouted down.

Now, of course, on a private college campus, or at a private organization's event, there can be no such concerns about free speech, and perhaps that is the solution to the problem that concerns you. But on the campus of a public university (or a university that receives state funding), conservative students who dislike the way their speakers are being treated have at their disposal the means to fight back. Their refusal to exercise those means is not a free speech problem.

[Yonivore]

Not at all. I'm just saying that free speech works both ways. If liberals are able to push conservative speakers off campus, then either their means for resisting particular speakers are working ,or their viewpoint is prevailing on campus; perhaps both. In any event, conservative speakers who enter onto college campuses can't expect (nor should they expect) to exist in a coccoon, removed and protected from the various political viewpoints that college students have.

You seem to posit that the speakers should somehow be immunized from any possibility that they will be met with resistance. I'm saying that such a concept is anathema to the notion of free speech -- much more problematic to me than a concern about speakers with particular viewpoints being shouted down.

Now, of course, on a private college campus, or at a private organization's event, there can be no such concerns about free speech, and perhaps that is the solution to the problem that concerns you. But on the campus of a public university (or a university that receives state funding), conservative students who dislike the way their speakers are being treated have at their disposal the means to fight back. Their refusal to exercise those means is not a free speech problem.

They should be protected form assault and disorderly conduct...which are the tactics I oppose. I have no problem with placards, leaflets, or even vocal protests -- outside a venue. But, once you disrupt a function with repeated epithets or antics or once you physically assault someone, the party's over.

[FromWayDowntown]

They should be protected form assault and disorderly conduct...which are the tactics I oppose. I have no problem with placards, leaflets, or even vocal protests -- outside a venue. But, once you disrupt a function with repeated epithets or antics or once you physically assault someone, the party's over.

If they are physically assaulting speakers or other students, they should be arrested and disciplined. That isn't just a university matter -- if there are assaults taking place, the local police should be brought in to arrest the offenders. If there are reports that students are physically assaulting speakers, I'd be curious to read those reports.

But if they're just being loud and obnoxious -- even to the point of shouting epithets -- they're simply expressing a viewpoint; the University should not do anything about that unless what's done and said violates a written university policy.

Students disrupting a function is rude of the students, but it's not viewpoint discrimination on the part of the university.

[Yonivore]

Students disrupting a function is rude of the students, but it's not viewpoint discrimination on the part of the university.

That depends on if the University uniformly allows or disallows such "speech."

[FromWayDowntown]

That depends on if the University uniformly allows or disallows such "speech."

So are you suggesting that universities allow liberal students to shout down conservative speakers, but don't afford the same opportunity to conservative students vis a vis liberal speakers? If that's the point and there's some proof of that happening, I'd generally agree (though I must say that as an alumnus of an upper-tier, private, Eastern university -- and one who was involved with conservative organizations on a campus that leans heavily to the left -- I'm also familiar with concocted stories of mistreatment by groups seeking publicity for otherwise poorly-attended events) with you.

Otherwise, I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make here.

[Ocotillo]

Someone's actually believing Horowitz.

[Das Texan]

You mean all of the STATE universities that exercise some form of viewpoint discrimination, right? Unless a university receives some portion of its funding from the State, the Cons ution is inapplicable on campus, just as it is inapplicable on FoxNews or in the Washington Times.

almost every university recieves some federal funding in some way, shape or form these days.