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  1. #26
    Believe.
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    So tell me what is wrong with the expansion of pre-k.

    Are you saying 4 centers is a bad idea? Is it that it is going to be needs based for the most part? Is it because you don't believe that full day education is more beneficial to a 4 year old? Is it because you think that there is currently sufficient pre-k available to these kids? What is it?

  2. #27
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    This is a bull comment, btw. There are reasons the votes split along those geographic lines and I promsise that you've benefitted from the split far more than this tax increase is giong to hurt. City infrastructure is also split along those geographic lines in a very very skewed way.
    Sorry Manny, but the reason the vote slit along those geographic lines is because the informed voters no matter whether they were blue team or red team hated the plan.

  3. #28
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Then why did all the chambers of commerce and all living mayors support it? Informed voters don't live in those areas, CC? Interesting.

  4. #29
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    We have four kids that are preschool age, and I think it's a horrible plan.

    It doesn't really seem to do anything but waste money. They are creating new preschools that will serve a very very limited number of kids. And like CC said, the kids that it is aimed toward already have access to preschool through Head Start and other elementary school preschool programs.

    If they want to provide more opportunities for public preschool, I wouldn't be against it. This plan just didn't make any sense to me.

  5. #30
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Pretty easy to see where the gullible uninformed voters were...

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/election...ting-12658.php

    Lol @ UTSA students.

  6. #31
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Whats the legitimate draw then? Better quality?
    Their premise was that (they claimed) there are about 2500 kids every year that qualify for government assisted pre-k that don't take advantage of the existing programs. The problem is not capacity in the existing schools but parents that don't take advantage of the existing programs. Building 4 new schools doesn't address that problem.

  7. #32
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    http://www.sanantonio.gov/portals/0/...ct%20Sheet.pdf

    Seems to contradict some of your points.

  8. #33
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    PreK education has been shown to be a huge factor in success later in life. I certainly don't understand why that is the case but the data is what it is and its quite striking. Whehter or not the quality of prek ultimately has the same type of effect is unknown to me.

    However, from a cost perspective this doesn't seem to cost much. The professional development aspect of it is pretty interesting. Generally I think this type of initiative is a good one in the larger scheme of things but I obviously am not very familiar with it.

  9. #34
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    Whats the legitimate draw then? Better quality?
    There would be more money being thrown at education, so if you buy in to the notion that more money always equals better quality then you could make that arguement.

  10. #35
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Maybe - just maybe CC - its not all about being informed. Maybe those inner city precincts stand to have an improvement in pre K education with this measure. Did that thought cross your mind?

  11. #36
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    There would be more money being thrown at education, so if you buy in to the notion that more money always equals better quality then you could make that arguement.
    Specialization an certainly lead to better quality. Do you think there's a decent chance that these new facilities will improve markedly on the programs being offered at the current public schools?

  12. #37
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    So tell me what is wrong with the expansion of pre-k.

    Are you saying 4 centers is a bad idea? Is it that it is going to be needs based for the most part? Is it because you don't believe that full day education is more beneficial to a 4 year old? Is it because you think that there is currently sufficient pre-k available to these kids? What is it?
    The 4 centers plan creates an additional hardship that isn't present with the current system......you have to transport the children to 1 of only 4 centers.
    There was sufficient pre-k already offered. This was never an issue of access. Nobody wants to underfund the pre-k program. But it's completely absurd to duplicate existing infrastructure, and to do so in a less efficient manner.
    If a tax initiative was truly needed, then great. Funnel that additional money to the existing, completely operational, structure...public schools.

  13. #38
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.

  14. #39
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The 4 centers plan creates an additional hardship that isn't present with the current system......you have to transport the children to 1 of only 4 centers.
    There was sufficient pre-k already offered. This was never an issue of access. Nobody wants to underfund the pre-k program. But it's completely absurd to duplicate existing infrastructure, and to do so in a less efficient manner.
    If a tax initiative was truly needed, then great. Funnel that additional money to the existing, completely operational, structure...public schools.
    Not sure why the argument is that this is an equivalent prek program. Nothing I've read seems to indicate that.

  15. #40
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    PreK education has been shown to be a huge factor in success later in life. I certainly don't understand why that is the case but the data is what it is and its quite striking. Whehter or not the quality of prek ultimately has the same type of effect is unknown to me.

    However, from a cost perspective this doesn't seem to cost much. The professional development aspect of it is pretty interesting. Generally I think this type of initiative is a good one in the larger scheme of things but I obviously am not very familiar with it.
    I don't think anyone is disputing the merits of pre-k programs. This is just isn't a good way to promote them.

  16. #41
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    The tacit assumption made by this .pdf is that these services are not currently being provided. That is largely false.

  17. #42
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Not sure why the argument is that this is an equivalent prek program. Nothing I've read seems to indicate that.
    The tax calls for the duplication of existing infrastructure, Manny.

  18. #43
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.
    Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe HeadStart is a full day everywhere in San Antonio already. It is in our area (7:30-3:30)... my son was in it last school year. He was eligible because he was still a foster child when the school year started.

  19. #44
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Maybe - just maybe CC - its not all about being informed. Maybe those inner city precincts stand to have an improvement in pre K education with this measure. Did that thought cross your mind?
    Every single elementary school in San Antonio offers pre-k for kids that meet the exact same guidelines as the city plan. These are education professionals with the education and transportation infrastructure already in place.

  20. #45
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Also - a full day vs half day would seem to be an improvement.
    Great. Fund it. Give it to the schools that are already providing half day so they can staff up to full day.

    You don't have to build new campuses to do this.

  21. #46
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Plus the State sales tax slump from the recession is over. Tax receipts from south Texas oil/gas exploration has exploded. The state is in the position to raise funding for education in the normal school district venues.

  22. #47
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    Specialization an certainly lead to better quality. Do you think there's a decent chance that these new facilities will improve markedly on the programs being offered at the current public schools?
    Sure there's a chance. There's also a chance that the city is going to one day wish they had some taxing capacity left over to pay for something like more policemen, more firemen, more infrastructure, or whatever other services the city is obligated to provide. They just gave that up in order to get in to education when there are already school districts whose sole purpose is to do stuff like this.

  23. #48
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    I just don't know why, if 2,300 kids that are eligible for current programs aren't enrolled at all, what would make them enroll in the new schools?

  24. #49
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

    I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.

  25. #50
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    castro is doing you guys a favor. he wants you to have the best educated messicans that will soon be regulatin your daily lives.

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