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Hm, hard to argue with someone sayin I said something i never said..
iirc the Spurs were smart and made the 2nd year of his deal a team option so they won't get the same bull Phoenix got when signed a 5 year deal and was completely unmotivated in every which way for the 2+ years he was in Phoenix after signing the extension.
I'd still be surprised if he doesn't show up to training camp fat and lazy figuring he can wait till the end of the season to convince the Spurs to pick up the 2nd year of his deal.
Hm, hard to argue with someone sayin I said something i never said..
spur fans are ridiculous and notoriously stupid
If Boris would shoot the ing ball he would be fine.
your sig
Those kinds of people are a disgrace to democrats
He came in thinner, so so far hes on the right track. Who cares if Diaw has a history of laziness too. I said Id take a motivated Diaw, which he has been on the Spurs and most winning teams hes been on, over Lee not the lazy Diaw.
I'd take a 2006, in shape and motivated Diaw when he averaged over 6 boards and 6 assists (in which case his versatility really was unique) over David Lee. On the Spurs he was still fat and out of shape. Maybe he was more motivated than he was in Charlotte but he hasn't sniffed his 2006 level of play since he signed the 5 year extension following that season. The 2007 and 2008 Suns I'm guessing fit your definition of "winning" and he was not motivated on either team. Maybe more motivated than he was in Charlotte when he completely stopped caring, but not motivated enough to stay in shape. His problem has never been trying hard during games, his problem has been doing what's required in between games and during the off season.
2006 Diaw
2012 Diaw
Even overweight a motivated Diaw still has a unique skillset, and is more useful on a good team than the skillset of a player like Lee imo. Bad defenders, with nice stats and a 'knack for rebounding' have shown theyre completely useless on solid teams. One may be slightly better than the other, but theyre all the same type of players; Blair, Gooden, Boozer, Lee, etc. Alll empty stats. Ive always hated that type of player tbh.
If Diaw got back to 06' form it wouldnt be a discussion tbh. Itd be Diaw easily despite Lee still having the much nicer stats.
Blair and Gooden are not on the same level as Boozer or Lee (Lee isn't on the same level as healthy Boozer for that matter). To say Carlos Boozer is useless on solid teams is wildly re ed.
In 2007, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 51 win team that made the conference finals.
In 2008, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 54 win team that made the conference semifinals.
In 2010, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 53 win team that made the conference semifinals.
In 2011, he was the 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder on a 62 win team that made the conference finals.
In 2012, he was the leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder on the team that had the best record and lost in the 1st round because its best player is a gangbanger.
That's what you consider completely useless on a solid team? The day Gooden or Blair lead a 50+ win team that makes the conference finals in scoring and rebounding let me know, I'll slice my scrotum off and Fedex it to you, but I'm not too concerned with that happening.
Lee's "Knack for rebounding" is also stronger than Gooden or Blair's knack for rebounding. Lee has rebounded well in every situation he's had. He's rebounded well as both a starter and reserve, as both a PF and a C, etc. Even in 2008 when he was on the same team as Randolph and Curry playing mostly off the bench, he still rebounded really well.
Lastly, if you're going to base your argument off how good/bad Lee would be on a good team, then you also have to acknowledge the possibility that his bad D is largely a product of the teams he's been on and would get better on the Spurs. The Gooden/Blair comparison isn't valid since both of those players have already proven themselves as bad defenders on good teams, Lee has never had a coach who gives a about defense with the exception of Larry Brown his rookie year. I'm not saying it's a sure thing he'd be much better on D on the Spurs, but acting like his defense hypothetically being just as bad under Popovich as it was under Isiah Thomas, Mike D'antoni, Keith Smart or Marc Jackson is a foregone conclusion doesn't make any sense. He's got good athleticism, his size is good enough (and yes, 6'9" 250 is not bad size for a PF in today's NBA), as far as I can tell he isn't notoriously stupid like Drew Gooden and his energy level has never been a problem. He also wouldn't have one of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA leaving him in bad spots. There's no reason to assume he'd be as bad as Gooden or Blair.
In essence, the Gooden/Blair comparison is asinine.
Boozer is the best of the bunch but hes still trash. Its no coincidence that the Bulls never miss a step when Taj Gibson steps in when hes injured. No defense, no post-presence on offense, no ability to consistently create on his own/draw double teams...hes basically made a living off of being really really good at mostly hitting jumpshots from Roses and DWills penetration. Getting those numbers from him is very different than lets say MVPaus similar numbers on a good Lakers team. Empty stats. Just like what Gooden provided for those 50+ win Cleveland teams when he was a Top 2-3 scorer and rebounder for them. All of these kind of players suck, I didnt single Lee out because Im a homer trying to prop up Diaw.
Regarding Lee, other than being white he hasnt shown much when it comes to defensive bball IQ. I wouldnt say hes as stupid as Blair or Gooden (simply because hes white) but hes still an obvious defensive liability. And the same no post-presence, no ability to consistently create on his own/draw double teams statement applies for Lee as well obviously.
Last edited by FkLA; 10-13-2012 at 01:57 PM.
So far this season:Will bump this sometime next season when Diaw comes into camp with 10% BF and puts up 10, 7, and 3+ tbh
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting
Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team
FkLA
But, he'sSo far this season:
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting
Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team
efficient
B-b-b-b-b-b-but Lee isn't clSo far this season:
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting
Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team
Diaw is a fat tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as , cant believe I fell for this fat s tricks.
I think he should roid, Diaw on roid rage would be Lebron basicallyDiaw is a fat tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as , cant believe I fell for this fat s tricks..
I don't see him specially fat, tbh. The problem for him was Pop deciding to start/showcase Blair to ship his ass off.
Diaw is a fat tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as , cant believe I fell for this fat s tricks.
Hes still overweight. Its not so much his weight thats the problem though as much as the way he approaches and plays games which makes him come off as lazy.
Him shedding some weight+appearing to be happy playing alongside his gay, French teammates. Didnt expect him to be content being a lollygagger out on the court tbh. The prediction wasnt illogical since he has the talent to easily play better than he has thus far this season.
great comeback to hide your ty takes on Diaw and Lee.
Even if Diaw played better than thus far he would be nowhere close to D Lee.
If he consistently put up 10+, 5+, 5+ lines like he has a couple of times he would be tbh.
He's never averaged 7+ rebounds a game. Not when he was in shape, not when he was fat. Thinking he would magically do that this year was illogical, GNSF bull .
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