Grizzles make Multi-Player Trade

[Cry Havoc]

Given how bad the Cavs are right now, this actually might help them in the short-term.

[timvp]

The best thing about this deal for the Grizzlies in the short-term might be that it allowed them to add some much better shooters. They are last in the NBA in three-pointers made. In today's NBA, you can't be that bad at shooting threes and still be a true championship contender. It's just not possible anymore with the current defensive rules.

Walker, West and Vujacic are all good three-point shooters. Leuer is a bigman who will likely become a capable three-point shooter.


Good, quick makeover, unfortunately.

[Cry Havoc]

The best thing about this deal for the Grizzlies in the short-term might be that it allowed them to add some much better shooters. They are last in the NBA in three-pointers made. In today's NBA, you can't be that bad at shooting threes and still be a true championship contender. It's just not possible anymore with the current defensive rules.

Walker, West and Vujacic are all good three-point shooters. Leuer is a bigman who will likely become a capable three-point shooter.


Good, quick makeover, unfortunately.

Expected from Hollinger. That has to be one of the most underrated moves made this season. Great hiring by Memphis.

[LittleCriminal]

I'd rather have Spieghts coming off the bench than Bonner and Lamont..
Spurs should trade Bonner and Ass Hat to Cavs For Spieghts!!

[Bruno]

Hollinger looks like he's having an impact since they're undoing a lot of dumb stuff.

Walker, West and Vujacic is a pretty damn good haul for this point in the season.

Leuer, Walker, West and Vujacic > Speights, Ellington and Selby

The loss of a lottery pick at some point in the future hurts in theory but 1) if they keep winning it won't be a lottery pick 2) saving $6M now for them to keep the rest of their team intact isn't a bad deal for a 10-14 pick, IMO

Given their current position, this is a trade the Grizzlies should have been glad to make. Keep winning and it's a great trade.

I agree that this deal has virtually no impact on their level for this year but it doesn't change that what Memphis has done this past few months is horrible.

In July, they conscientiously made moves that put them over the tax. 6 months later they had to give up a possible lottery pick to unfold these signing.

Even if the trade in itself isn't that bad, the combination of it with the July signings are horrible. Had Memphis been a little more cautious in July, they would be right now below the tax and still have that lottery pick.

[ace3g]

I mentioned in the nba forum thread:

Chris Vernon ‏@ChrisVernonShow @DraftExpress tell me about Joe Ingles - grizz considering him and told he could get out of contract.

I hope the Grizz stay away from Ingles, because I think he is a player the Spurs should go after in the future.

[ElNono]

In July, they conscientiously made moves that put them over the tax. 6 months later they had to give up a possible lottery pick to unfold these signing.

I think you're missing they changed ownership and management between last July and now.

[Bruno]

I think you're missing they changed ownership and management between last July and now.

No, I'm not and I've said in another post: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post6312238

And the uncertainty about ownership isn't an excuse, it's an aggravating factor. It should have pushed Chris Wallace to be more cautious and not go in the luxury tax territory.

[letmk]

Contrary to what Timvp said, I think it's a bad trade for Grizzlies from pure basketball perspective. Just ask their coach Lionel Hollins, does he want to minus those players from his roster? I bet not.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Contrary to what Timvp said, I think it's a bad trade for Grizzlies from pure basketball perspective. Just ask their coach Lionel Hollins, does he want to minus those players from his roster? I bet not.

Why?

Delonte West, Vujacic > Selby, Ellington
Lauer, Walker > Speights

[Cry Havoc]

Per Reddit, a Cavs fan:

I love this trade as a Cavs fan. None of them are stars but we just managed to pull three players under 25 years old, two of them rotation players for a playoff team in the West, along with a first round draft pick just for Jon Leuer and biting the bullet on some cash to save Memphis from the tax.

[freetiago]

Well memphis did add some good shooters but i have faith lionel hollins will kill all their confidence just like he did to OJ Mayo

[iManu]

Hollinger!!! *Shakes fist*

[cd98]

Alright, after gluing my brain back together, this deal is still good for the Grizzlies but it makes more sense.

The real deal = "Memphis sent big man Marreese Speights, guard Wayne Ellington, guard Josh Selby and a future first-round draft pick to the Cavs for forward Jon Leuer."

Trash for Leuer is a wash. (I'd rather have Leuer than those three at a cost of $6M, though.)

The first round draft pick is basically a bet by the Grizzlies that they'll remain a playoff team for the rest of this decade. That's a decent bet but it's also somewhat risky. They're a couple injuries away from sliding down and losing a late lottery pick, IMO. So, yeah, that's a risk.

But the big win for the Grizzlies is it looks like they'll be able to keep the rest of their team together.

All in all, an acceptable trade by both sides. The Cavs are basically paying $6M for a chance at a lottery pick ... which isn't a bad gamble. The Grizzlies are shedding three players they didn't need for a decent prospect and the right to keep their team together, while taking the risk of losing a lottery pick down the line. That sounds pretty smart, too.

I haven't looked at his stats, but isn't Wayne Ellington their only three point shooter. On a team where offense is hard to come by, giving any of it up can be significant.

[ElNono]

No, I'm not and I've said in another post: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post6312238

And the uncertainty about ownership isn't an excuse, it's an aggravating factor. It should have pushed Chris Wallace to be more cautious and not go in the luxury tax territory.

So the new management should just stay pat and assume the ups Chris Wallace did last July?

[cd98]

Grizzlies wasting no time. They're signing Delonte West, Bill Walker, and Sasha Vujacic.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...r_West_Vujacic

Well, I guess that fixes their three point shooting.

[cd98]

Contrary to what Timvp said, I think it's a bad trade for Grizzlies from pure basketball perspective. Just ask their coach Lionel Hollins, does he want to minus those players from his roster? I bet not.

The trade, if coupled with the signings, is actually very good. I think Speights is a little better than he is given credit for here, but Arthur coming back basically made him unnecessary. In fact, I think they traded for him because of Arthur's injury. I'm not sure how West will turn out given how kooky he was with the Mavs. It got so bad they had to cut him, I think. But Vujacic is a good shooter, if open, and he will get lots of good shots with two quality post players and a good penetrating point guard.

Draft picks can be very useful, but let's be honest, a lot of them don't pan out and given how tight the salary cap is going to be, trading first round picks will probably be fairly common. Hard to say that they will miss that pick right now. Of course, didn't Memphis get burned on this type of draft pick trade the year they were in contention to draft Lebron?

[Texas_Ranger]

It was said that Vujacic wont leave Efes.

[hater]

Speighs is a scrub who would always kill us with daggers, so it's a good trade for Spurs.

[Bruno]

So the new management should just stay pat and assume the ups Chris Wallace did last July?

Well, I'm mostly blaming Wallace who is still Memphis GM.

Regarding Memphis new ownership, it's not sure they've made a mistake since the Grizzlies sale was complicate but they likely should have let know Wallace that they weren't fine with paying the tax before he made these moves in July.

[letmk]

The trade, if coupled with the signings, is actually very good. I think Speights is a little better than he is given credit for here, but Arthur coming back basically made him unnecessary. In fact, I think they traded for him because of Arthur's injury. I'm not sure how West will turn out given how kooky he was with the Mavs. It got so bad they had to cut him, I think. But Vujacic is a good shooter, if open, and he will get lots of good shots with two quality post players and a good penetrating point guard.

Draft picks can be very useful, but let's be honest, a lot of them don't pan out and given how tight the salary cap is going to be, trading first round picks will probably be fairly common. Hard to say that they will miss that pick right now. Of course, didn't Memphis get burned on this type of draft pick trade the year they were in contention to draft Lebron?

If they can find replacing players at cheaper price, then it might not be bad. But the trade itself only makes sense from a financial point because they basically ship out players with draft pick to save money.

[ElNono]

Well, I'm mostly blaming Wallace who is still Memphis GM.

Regarding Memphis new ownership, it's not sure they've made a mistake since the Grizzlies sale was complicate but they likely should have let know Wallace that they weren't fine with paying the tax before he made these moves in July.

I understand (and share) the criticism of what Wallace did back in July but Heisley only reached an 'agreement in principle' mid-june, and the sale didn't go through till the end of october. I'm not really convinced the new management had much of a voice back then.

It should also be noted that the new ownership has brought in a new VP of basketball operations since the acquisition, so while it's true that Wallace remains the GM, they do seem to be looking to move in new directions.

[Strategic]

I don't see much upside to Leuer, probably a fringe player. The Griz do need a solid fourth big man, hopefully they didn't find one in this trade.

[racm]

Per Reddit, a Cavs fan:

Exactly. Memphis didn't give up their core but just gave Cleveland a bench.

Apart from Waiters (who seems to be groomed into the Manu/James Harden/Crawford role of bench scorer/playmaker), their bench stinks. Leuer couldn't beat out Luke Wltn for the backup PF spot, fwiw.

[Stump]

This trade is a huge fail for Memphis.

In July, they made moves like re-signing Speights and Haddadi that put them above the tax. 6 months later, they have to trade away a lottery pick to erase these moves and go under the tax.

I disagree (to an extent).

The Grizzlies had made the decision that they needed to get below the cap at just about any cost, even if it meant breaking up their core. This deal allows them to accomplish that without giving away Randolph or Gay. The alternate of giving away one of their star players would not only force them to surrender their contender status, it would be detrimental to a fanbase that is finally getting to see their team be relevant. Seriously, who would want to be a fan of the Griz after they blew up a good team to save a few bucks?

Any stupid FO moves that forced this trade (spending too much on role players, giving Gay a max contract, etc.) are a separate matter. Again, taken by itself, the trade was pretty solid for Memphis.