that was never what we were talking about. read your post #22 in this thread on page 1. you responded to AVERAGING 31 points on 74% shooting. consecutive games of 30 points on 60% shooting was never in this discussion. you just all of a sudden decided to change what we were talking about.
I don't have a problem with Laker fans underrating David Robinson, because:Nothing gives ambchang uterine cramps quite like denigrating his bible-thumping, playoff-choking hero
a) You are a Laker fan, not a Spurs fan, you are not supposed to know the history of the Spurs. What I find amazing is that I know more about the Lakers past than most Laker fans, but that leads to point b)
b) you are a laker fans, not a basketball fan, you are not supposed to know the history of basketball in general.
This guy gets really passionate about Robinson...makes me all misty-eyed with his Davey soliloquies. He didn't perform when his team needed him the most. Thankfully, Tim Duncan taught twinkletoes how to win in the playoffs.Dude was treating this thread like Game 7 writing an essay
I'd love to overrate DRob like you do, but ive just seen too many times where Shaq, Hakeem, Malone, et al used him as a trough in the playoffs
You write essays during Game 7s? No wonder your basketball takes are so ty, you should watch the game instead of writing essays during the playoffs, makes you more knowledgeable on the subject of basketball and prevents you from spewing bad takes on the Internets.Dude was treating this thread like Game 7 writing an essay
True talk.
You mean when Shaq couldn't beat the Spurs in his first 2 years in the league? Or how he outscored Shaq in 6 out of 8 meetings up till 1998 (Robinson hurt his back in 96, but still managed to outscore Shaq a few times after that career altering injury).
Or how Robinson held Shaq to 21.5 ppg in an entire series? Or a sweep in 99 (holding Shaq to 23.75ppg on 49% shooting), then another win in 03?
How about the difference between Avery Johnson/Vinny Del Negro and Kenny Smith/Clyde Drexler/Sam Cassell? You know, one of them consists of a PG who made 1 career 3PTer, while the other one includes a HoF, an all-star, and all three are better 3 pt shooters?
And how Malone's PG is the all-time assists and steals record holder, while Avery Johnson is more famous for destroying a mid-00's Mavs team than for playing?
Oh wait, sorry, you are a clueless Laker fan, who actually thinks individuals win championships, not teams.
LOL, not addressing the failures of Kobe, Hakeem, and KAJ when they had supporting casts as bad as Robinson's.
"True talk," Robinson was indeed one of the best regular season players ever. Guy jusf had a knack for compiling stats in the reg season. The NBA's Vinny Testaverde
@ ranking Moses Malone over Duncan and Shaq. I can't take you seriously. Sorry.
So he did all that and still couldnt lead his team to an NBA Finals? Yikes.
You mean he should have been management and forced trades and be a poisonous teammate? Yikes!
It worked
Write more excuses though. If you're persistent enough, you may just be able to eradicate all his playoff failures from the history books
It worked
Write more excuses though. If you're persistent enough, you may just be able to eradicate all his playoff failures from the history books
Well that was a fun meltdown, you outdid yourself again
Beating your ass is a meltdown now?
I suppose a lot of people have meltdowns then.
There's only one person in this thread writing walls of text trying to convince themselves their hero isn't a loser.
There is one person in this thread unable to come up with any substantial arguments and only come up with lame insults.
Yeah, the "it was everybody else's fault!" argument (which is what your bull ultimately amounts to) is really convincing. It's also great how you draw upon Kobe (your favorite subject to talk about) when comparing them. "Kobe's a poisonous teammate!". That may be so, but he's never alienated one of the best players on his team through god-mongering.
Last question, ambchang: how many playoff series with HCA did a David Robinson-led Spurs team lose? No lame excuses, just give me the number.
I'll take it one step further, LJ: Though history will remember Duncan as the better player (and rightly so), Robinson actually has a higher peak (93-95) than anything Duncan approached. At his peak Robinson was a 30 PER guy, while Duncan maxed out at 27.Complicated answer, obviously but leading reasons:
1. Robinson played in a poor era for his skillset. If he plays during Showtime or in today's game, he's unstoppable. Unfortunately for him, he played in a slow era that allowed tons of contact. Bad luck.
2. His lack of low-post game hurt. But, really, it wasn't his fault. Robinson was 7-foot-1 with a 30-inch waste, he didn't have the body type to be great posting up. I'm not the world's biggest KG fan but I think it's silly when he gets criticized for not ever developing a low-post game. Players who are top heavy and skinny physically can't be great on the block. In the playoffs, having a big with a low-post game was deadly -- especially in the illegal defense era. Today, it's not as deadly due to the zone rules.
3. Bad roster composition. If you have a dominant big, you surround him with three-point shooters to create space for him. The Rockets had the best three-point shooting teams in the NBA in 1994 and 1995. , even the Magic figured out that surrounding D-Ho with three-point shooters would maximize his skills. Robinson was stuck on a team that couldn't shoot so the opposition could double or triple him without care.
4. Coaching was obviously bad. Teammates were pretty damn bad prior to Duncan. Sean Elliott is one of my favorite players ever but he was massively overrated. A two-time All-Star who never had a PER above 16.3? WTF, that doesn't even make sense in retrospect.
I see merit in claims that Robinson didn't have a killer instinct or whatever. When you play in the Michael Jordan era and are compared to MJ's compe iveness that bordered on mental illness, Robinson was too self-aware to live up to that standard. But still, if he's in today's NBA, he's probably regarded as an above average compe or.
The redeeming thing for a Robinson fan such as myself is that as advanced stats become better and better, Robinson's legend continues to grow. From RAPM to APM to WS48 to even PER, Robinson grades out as one of the very best regular season players ever ... like in the top five. And if we knew in 1999 what we know now in terms of what wins basketball games, Duncan and Robinson would have been given equal billing. Robinson had the higher PER and WS48 in the regular season and tied Duncan in WS48 in the postseason. Robinson wasn't still in his prime in 1999 but he was probably still a top 5-7 player.
The reason for this, mainly, is that Duncan was robbed of ever being able to attain his true athletic peak by that knee injury he suffered in 2000.
For typical athletes, the prime of their careers are from ages 27-29 because that's when their athleticism and their IQ/wisdom/experience hit their apex. While generally an athlete hits his physical prime around 24-25, they don't yet ac ulate the knowledge/wisdom to truly harness their gifts to the max. Obviously the opposite is also true in that while an athlete can theoretically ac ulate wisdom and knowledge about their craft forever, their bodies betray them too much physically after 29 to make that acquired experience useful in the "superstar" sense.
Duncan hit his physical peak as an NBA player at 22, the 1999 season. After that he couldn't ever leap the same again and couldn't ever aspire to the super-athlete status one needs to be to get to that 30 PER plateau. That Duncan has achieved all he has is because his fundamentals/drive/IQ/compe iveness are all off the charts (far exceeding Robinson's).
However as awesome as Duncan was to behold in 2002-2003, we as basketball fans were robbed of seeing him reach his true potential, as scary as that sounds.
Robinson was a great athlete and regular season player...much like Vince Carter. It's just a shame he had Romo-like tendencies in meaningful games.
favorite subject to talk about) when comparing them. "Kobe's a poisonous teammate!Yeah, the "it was everybody else's fault!" argument (which is what your bull ultimately amounts to) is really convincing. It's also great how you draw upon Kobe (your favorite subject to talk about) when comparing them. "Kobe's a poisonous teammate!
You mean you did not read any of the arguments about how Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe and KAJ sucked with subpar teammates?
You mean you still haven't figured out that basketball is a team sport?
It's also great that you jumped to Kobe immediately, because I was also referring to Shaq, KAJ, and Hakeem, as all of them became horrible teammates and forced trades when they had a crap team, but good that you immediately think of Kobe and Kobe only when I mention poisonous teammates despite me mentioning Shaq, KAJ and Hakeem along with Kobe throughout this entire thread.
Not sure if you include series where Robinson didn't play. If you include it, then 5, if not, then 4.
But this just shows that you STILL do not get how regular season and playoffs are played very differently.
looking at just those 5 games, kobe's streak is more impressive. but lebron's streak is not over yet. it's 6 games and counting if you start from the toronto game.
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