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To me it was a gret defense
don't blame Green for that last play. He did ok and come on, it was a twenty something high arching footer. lucky shot
but I do blame him for the multiple missed dunks, assignments and ups. He played horribly and was the 2nd worst player after Blair
To me it was a gret defense
to call him out after making clutch defensive plays against Lin a couple of nights ago is pretty weak. Danny Green lost the game? Really? Pinning it on him is a chicken move honestly.
Meh..I don't think Green did anything wrong. What more did Pop want? I mean yeah Danny could have gotten up in Mo a little more but then you risk a foul being called on you. It was just a BS luck shot. You know your an idiot when you go for a contested 28 foot three point shot in a tie game...
Good point. Defensive footwork and positioning is more effective than getting a hand up.
There's not a reason to worry about this Jazz squad. Their just like any other year where they go on the occasional 5 or 6 game streak, go into a slump, come back later in the regular season, and end up exiting in the first round.
Funny how you often hear that a particular player error was not the cause of a loss, that the game was actually lost earlier due to X.
I've never seen that same rationale applied when somebody hits a game-winning shot...
I still believe Green is no better than an average defender, and is a huge liability on the offensive end as well. The guy cannot finish near the rim, and has not shown reliability when it counts. I do understand that he has made a few big plays at the buzzer over the past couple of years, including the one in Dallas that JUST exceeded the final buzzer.
I understand he is young with upside, but at this point I question his worth on the team after this season.
Green = Jeff
when it is all said and done
Except presumably hetero?
Yep, he's a great guy but he's not very good at basketball imo, a guard handling the ball like Bonner wtf... Let's free Jax and play play KY at his true position, the 2.
When it's all said and done I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sex scandal going on backstage ala Sandusky, can't tell me Pop fell in love with Bonner and Green for their bb skills...
Leonard is not a shooting guard. He's a small forward. He doesn't play the three out of necessity. He plays it because that's his NBA position. He needs a lot more work offensively before he becomes able to play any more than spot minutes at the two.
We keep going along in this song and dance on this board, with some people saying, "It doesn't matter what the stats say. It doesn't matter how many games he finishes defensively. It doesn't matter how many big shots he hits. Danny Green is not a good player." I don't get it. He's had a rough time for most of the games where he has to play the three, but that doesn't cover up the fact that he was arguably the most impactful wing the Spurs had last year.
This idea that Kawhi is some jack of all trades and Green is just a master of none is not true at all. Leonard is the future, but as far as present goes, both he and Green have had their share of playing awesome defense and getting beat like a drum. Kawhi made an awesome defensive play to help beat OKC this year; Green had an even better one in the regular season last year. Neither of them really showed up against the Thunder in the playoffs. It's been great to have them both and to see them grow. Leonard may have been able to stop Williams from making that three two days ago, but it's likely he wouldn't have made all the plays Green did down the stretch against the Rockets. That's why you have multiple players.
KY's offensive repertoire is irrelevant, he can shoot the 3 like Danny and he has also shown hints of a mid range game, but he's a stopper, a defensive specialist and he's not made to defend 3s like Lebron, Durant, Metta and so on, he's not strong enough, he's way too small at this point in his career while he can actually defend 2s (and switch on PGs) efficiently. So basically we're making KY's life harder to play a scrub, very reminiscing of Tim/Blair tbh. Jax is strong enough to defend anyone as he has shown in the past.
One shot in the game did not beat us. It might have been a defensive error, but there's no reason to focus on that one play. Had Mo taken that shot 10 minutes earlier, Pop would have lived with it. I understand situations change but points are points, and if the team doesn't have Blair ting the bed, they probably aren't looking at that last second shot anyhow.
Like I said, Blair really really sucks, now someone come along and show his stats and call me ignorant.
Where is this idea that Kawhi is some guard-stopper coming from? It's not coming from reality. Truth is, Pop trusts (or at least used to trust) Green to take the smaller guards while Kawhi is supposed to take the bigger guards and forwards. Kawhi will get better at stopping point guards as he gets more experienced , but he's not there now (he still bites on fakes worse than Green does). And no, he's not too small to play the three defensively. Kawhi's best defensive games have come when guarding forwards (Gay and Durant). He was a power-forward in college. If anything, he's trying to get lighter right now.
It's not all about size when you're talking about defending wings, anyway. Smaller players who play fundamentally sound defense will be able to hold off bigger players, which is why players like Bowen and Tony Allen can guard so many positions. And if Green can guard World Peace, Leonard can, too. It just so happened that Kawhi failed to do so as a rookie last year (mainly due to intimidation in the first game) while Green proved able to. Anderson guarded James well, and he's two inches shorter and 19 pounds lighter than Leonard. Jackson is just one inch taller than Leonard and (according to DraftExpress) 23 pounds lighter. Add in Leonard's wingspan, and there's no question what position he is going to play. The only way he ever plays the two consistently is if the he's playing with a forward like Durant.
And here we go with the "Green's a scrub" nonsense again. He's won the Spurs as many games as Kawhi has. He's also a heck of a team defender, which is something at which Leonard is still improving. I don't get why people make it about being one versus the other. When everyone is healthy, Green, Leonard, Manu and Jackson know their roles and play them really well. It's the other players that are causing the personnel changes.
Eye test tbh, doubt there's much data on it since he got so few opportunities to do it, I remember Kawhi switching on CP3 and Kobe.
It's not coming from reality. Truth is, Pop trusts (or at least used to trust) Green to take the smaller guards while Kawhi is supposed to take the bigger guards and forwards. Kawhi will get better at stopping point guards as he gets more experienced , but he's not there now (he still bites on fakes worse than Green does). And no, he's not too small to play the three defensively. Kawhi's best defensive games have come when guarding forwards (Gay and Durant). He was a power-forward in college. If anything, he's trying to get lighter right now.Can't try top get smaller to play the 3 when Metta post him like he's a fly already...
Sjax has bigger legs, he doesn't get pushed around when gets posted, even vs monster PFs.It's not all about size when you're talking about defending wings, anyway. Smaller players who play fundamentally sound defense will be able to hold off bigger players, which is why players like Bowen and Tony Allen can guard so many positions. And if Green can guard World Peace, Leonard can, too. It just so happened that Kawhi failed to do so as a rookie last year (mainly due to intimidation in the first game) while Green proved able to. Anderson guarded James well, and he's two inches shorter and 19 pounds lighter than Leonard. Jackson is just one inch taller than Leonard and (according to DraftExpress) 23 pounds lighter. Add in Leonard's wingspan, and there's no question what position he is going to play. The only way he ever plays the two consistently is if the he's playing with a forward like Durant.
Green is scrubing right now, that can't be argued, and when you look back he was on a scrub team in Poland or something not so long ago and not doing any wave, I'd say the real level of Green is very much up in the air. I love Diaw and I can tell you he's scrubing as well (except in his case there's hope that he's coasting), like I said he's a good guy, he's no RJ for sure but I don't think he's good enough to be the undisputed starter Pop decided he was by a long shot.And here we go with the "Green's a scrub" nonsense again. He's won the Spurs as many games as Kawhi has. He's also a heck of a team defender, which is something at which Leonard is still improving. I don't get why people make it about being one versus the other. When everyone is healthy, Green, Leonard, Manu and Jackson know their roles and play them really well. It's the other players that are causing the personnel changes.
He did switch on to Kobe (bigger guard), whom Kawhi stopped at the end of this season's game against the Lakers. But Kobe also took advantage of Leonard a lot when Kawhi was on him for a full game. Kawhi also had a good possession against Paul in overtime during the regular season last year. But it was Green who stopped him at the end of game four in the playoffs. Green gets burned sometimes, but Pop probably would've put him on Lin instead of Leonard last Rockets game anyway.
Green's smaller, and he could do it. Size doesn't matter as much with perimeter players, because offensive fouls get called a lot more for bulldozing players. Leonard may need to get some more nasty before he's ready to take on such a physical battle, but hiding him on guards isn't going to help him do that.
Sure, so why should Jack leave his role as small-ball four just to increase the Spurs' bench wing problem?Sjax has bigger legs, he doesn't get push around when gets posted, even vs monster PFs.
Green had a bad game following a mediocre game following one of the best games he's played in his career. I don't see how that's scrubbing. He's been down this year when compared to last year, and I think a lot of that is due to him having to play small-forward (for which he is actually is too small) and in general being nervous about living up to his contract. He'll benefit most from Leonard returning, because it will allow him to be himself again.Green is scrubing right now, that can't be argued, and when you look back he was on a scrub team in Poland or something not so long ago and not doing any wave, I'd say the real level of Green is very much up in the air. I love Diaw and I can tell you he's scrubing as well (except in his case there's hope that he's coasting), like I said he's a good guy, he's no RJ for sure but I don't think he's good enough to that undisputed starter by a long shot.
The real level of Green isn't just based off one year with the Spurs. He was this type of player at UNC as well. He's always been a glue guy, a Jared Dudley guy. He's used to playing with star-talent and staying out of the way while doing the little things needed for success. He was also a leader and a key cog to a championship team. Those qualities have translated to the NBA. But frankly, I think he's really worn out. I've seen him ask for subs and Pop shake his head.
Green's far more consistent in his role than all other shooting guards on the Spurs. When Manu gets all the way there, he'll be consistent off the bench, and everything will make sense again. Pop and Green need to fix this situation, because an actualized Green (the one we saw during the Spurs' run last season) makes the Spurs into an elite team. That may seem like absurdly high praise, but the numbers bear it out.
Last edited by Chinook; 12-14-2012 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Why not?
I do not see any problem considering Pop and Green
When Pop will have time to have a training session spurs gonna try to fix all the problems.
i agree with Pop, it was a big mistake by Green, he should have play Mo much more aggresive for the drive with that little amount of time, but instead he generous backed off of him when he catching the ball and let Mo to relatively comfortable getting into his shot!
can u clowns stop overrating the players....if they were that good, teams would be callin for a trade...
Green's problem isn't technique. He played the "wrong" defense, but he played it as well as anyone on the team would. If Pop wants to show tough love by embarrassing him, I can get that, so long as it's coupled with continuing to put Green out there in those situations. That sends a message of, "You messed up, but you're still important to what we're doing here." But from what Green was saying, how he was acting last night and how Pop played him as a result, that message didn't get through. That combined with Tony and Pop laying into him for what was admittedly a horrible fastbreak mistake and Pop consistently going with a cold Neal over a decently warm Green just took its toll on the chemistry. The rotations became so bad that by the end I didn't even know what the Pop was doing.
an EXTRAAAAAAAA late LMFAO at that .. sorry to bump this old ass thread, just figured out how to use the new quoted message tracker..
Even though this bump is for a different reason, the thread kind of has some relevancy.
At the end Tony pushed up on Kyrie making him have to do something rather than spacing him so he can launch a triple (he made a game winner a few weeks back from the same spot). Against Mo Williams, Danny backed off and allowed Mo to get a clean look. Sure, cir stances were different but this can serve as a little lesson for Danny when it comes to defending isolations with the clock winding down.
TP.
Yeah, don't let shooters get a clean look. Even if they are 3 ft behind the 3 pt line. A shooter is a shooter and practice those shots all the damn time.
Good accidental bump.
The Mo Williams shot is exactly the play I thought of when TP got up on Irving and forced him to put the ball on the ground. If Parker lays off Irving, the Spurs probably lose. It would've looked something like this:
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