NBA: Prime wade vs prime Dirk

[Killakobe81]

Dirk.

Dirk helped lead Dallas to an impressive and sustained level of elite play for like a decade with varying degrees of talent on his teams in the Western Conference during a decade dominated by the Spurs and Lakers, and to a lesser extent other really good to great teams in many of those years, like Sacramento, Portland, and Phoenix. Wade only helped his team reach great team success in a weak Eastern Conference when he had guys like Shaq and LeBron. And the two les he had are at least qualified first by questionable officiating in 2006 and the fact he was a second banana to LeBron last season. While Wade is still a great player, even in his own era, there were comparable players like Kobe, T-Mac, Vince, Iverson. But the only comparable player to Dirk is HOFer, Larry Bird. Dirk is unique. And he has been greater in terms of consistency and longevity.

I'd take prime Dirk over prime Wade 10 times out of 10 times.

Gotta agree. Though Wade was better all-around (defense/passer) ... in his prime, Dirk went from crappy to mediocre Defensively ...but was unreal offensively. Plus he rebounded like a man in the playoffs. Dirk is arguably the best "tough shot maker" ... in his era with only Kobe who is close or maybe better. Plus his shot selection is not as bad as Kobe's. Sure at times Dirk was soft and though he flops you cant call Wade soft ... but yet I still take Dirk in a close call ...wont say 10 out of 10 but ...at least 7 ...

[ambchang]

Dirk was better for longer, and had a higher peak. Not really too tough a choice TBH.

He led the league in WS/48 three times and OWS and WS twice, PER once with a career high of 28.1.

Wade on the other, great as he was, never led the league in WS/48, WS OWS or DWS (In fact, Nowitzki has 4 seasons with a better WS than Dwyane Wade's career high WS of 14.7, and a fifth season of 14.6), led the league in PER once with 28.9 and a career high of 30.1.

Wade put up better all-around statistics, but Nowitzki has led his teams to more victories due to his play for a longer period of time than Wade has.

[AussieFanKurt]

As Jordan said, Dirk is one of 4 players who would succeed in his era. He's right. Dirk is good in any era and I would definitely take him over Wade.

[Findog]

Gotta agree. Though Wade was better all-around (defense/passer) ... in his prime, Dirk went from crappy to mediocre Defensively ...but was unreal offensively. Plus he rebounded like a man in the playoffs. Dirk is arguably the best "tough shot maker" ... in his era with only Kobe who is close or maybe better. Plus his shot selection is not as bad as Kobe's. Sure at times Dirk was soft and though he flops you cant call Wade soft ... but yet I still take Dirk in a close call ...wont say 10 out of 10 but ...at least 7 ...

Dirk was never soft. Just because you can physically push a guy off his preferred spots because you're stronger and bulkier than he is doesn't make him soft. I mean he got his teeth knocked out and returned in the same game, played through so many injuries, and he never went -made like Carmelo and LeBron and tried to get out of Dallas because Cuban couldn't put together a Super Team for him.

[Killakobe81]

Dirk was never soft. Just because you can physically push a guy off his preferred spots because you're stronger and bulkier than he is doesn't make him soft. I mean he got his teeth knocked out and returned in the same game, played through so many injuries, and he never went -made like Carmelo and LeBron and tried to get out of Dallas because Cuban couldn't put together a Super Team for him.

Maybe soft is harsh but I do think he learned to play more aggressive and I dont think he rings without developing more toughness. Maybe it was mental or maybe he needed Lincoln and Tyson on his side but he was always elite but he took the next step in 2011 I dont care if his winshares or PER were better prior ...

[hater]

Dirk was mentally soft for many years. Wade was always mentally strong and clutch.

But Dirk got his finally and all things considered was a superior player than Wade.

[Drachen]

Dirk and it isn't even close. In fact its kinda funny to think about.

[Jacob1983]

The difference between 2006 Finals Dirk and 2011 Finals Dirk is that the Dirk in the 2011 Finals went to the damn hoop when the game was on the line. He would not be denied again in 2011.

[BUMP]

Dirk's best year is 2009 imo. He didn't lose his lift and quickness yet, and started attacking the rim like a man.

Agreed. It's often forgotten how completely ty that Mavs team was. It was basically Dirk, Jason Terry, and a Josh Howard that stopped caring. After that, you had Jason Kidd, Brandon Bass and then a whole bunch of journeymen, has beens, or never wases. Hard to believe that team won a playoff series.

[sook]

Actually Dirk's best years were from 05-08, with 06 Dirk being the best IMO. That finals run and the 67 win season while starting 0-7 was just ing ridiculous.

[Lincoln]

0-4 tbh, then they won 12 straight, lost one, 13 straight

[monosylab1k]

Dirk was never soft. Just because you can physically push a guy off his preferred spots because you're stronger and bulkier than he is doesn't make him soft. I mean he got his teeth knocked out and returned in the same game, played through so many injuries, and he never went -made like Carmelo and LeBron and tried to get out of Dallas because Cuban couldn't put together a Super Team for him.

Physically, Dirk was always tough. But there absolutely were plenty of times where he showed a mentally soft at ude. Not mentally weak, mind you, but mentally soft. It has less to do with Dirk and more with the other team. If other teams can sense that mental softness, it will always increase their confidence and aggressiveness on the court. And of course, the one year where Dirk had an few enforcers to make up for that mental softness, they win a le.

[Latarian Milton]

Physically, Dirk was always tough. But there absolutely were plenty of times where he showed a mentally soft at ude. Not mentally weak, mind you, but mentally soft. It has less to do with Dirk and more with the other team. If other teams can sense that mental softness, it will always increase their confidence and aggressiveness on the court. And of course, the one year where Dirk had an few enforcers to make up for that mental softness, they win a le.

dirk has a soft mind just like most of us tbh. dude dug his head in his arms when the ref blew the final whistle in game 6 of the 2011 finals, because he was also moved to tears just like us and he didn't want the world to see that. you don't see many players celebrating the championship that way, by comparison, the celts just went riot and got drunk as after winning the championship in 08.

dirk's mental softness relapsed in game 6 that year, though he looked rather tough in the previous games both mentally and physically. he missed every shot he attempted in the 1st half and went 0-10 something from the field, dude had a poor game that night which was fair to say, but thankfully your role players all stood up and rescued this team from what could've been a replica of the 06' tragedy. dirk just showed one more time that his mind couldn't stand such heavy pressure imho, when he was only one game away from winning his first ring ever.

[Sportstudi]

dirk has a soft mind just like most of us tbh. dude dug his head in his arms when the ref blew the final whistle in game 6 of the 2011 finals, because he was also moved to tears just like us and he didn't want the world to see that. you don't see many players celebrating the championship that way, by comparison, the celts just went riot and got drunk as after winning the championship in 08.

dirk's mental softness relapsed in game 6 that year, though he looked rather tough in the previous games both mentally and physically. he missed every shot he attempted in the 1st half and went 0-10 something from the field, dude had a poor game that night which was fair to say, but thankfully your role players all stood up and rescued this team from what could've been a replica of the 06' tragedy. dirk just showed one more time that his mind couldn't stand such heavy pressure imho, when he was only one game away from winning his first ring ever.

Not really. Yes, Dirk was very bad in the first half, he shot 1-12, but turned his game on in the second half when the game was close and willed Dallas to the le. Sure, 8-15 in the second half isn't stellar, but it's over .50 and thus, not bad. He had again 10 points in that 4th quarter.

[ambchang]

It is really sad that bring introspective and intelligent is being considered soft, whereas the wrecklessness and selfishness of players like JR smith and Nare Robinson is considered tough.

Nowitzki got screwed by the sterns in 06, then drew the worst possible matchup in 07 and got destroyed for it. Yet he kept working at it and improved his game until he won it all with one if the best playoff performance in recent memory. If that is not mentally tough, I am not sure what is.

[JamStone]

Being tough doesn't necessarily mean the lack of physicality or not being a banger in the paint. Not being loud or not talking doesn't make you soft. KG isn't tough just because he barks at opponents. That's fake tough. Maybe Dirk used to get that label because he's a 7-footer who is more of a perimeter guy and he's not loud and obnoxious when he scores a basket or flex when he pulls down a rebound. But some people viewed him that way because he didn't. I think the perception also got magnified when David West slapped him on the face and Dirk did absolutely nothing about it. But to me, that doesn't make him soft. It's way more gangsta for a player to not be thuggish, not be loud and talk , let the other team do all of that b.s., and then drop 30 on them and win the game. That's being a cold stone ninja. You don't have to bark like KG. You don't have to flex like Alonzo Mourning. You don't have to dance or hoot and holler after each shot. It doesn't make you soft.

Dirk being soft was more of a product of the American basketball fan not being used to a great player who didn't rely on all the dramatics and flash and fake sports entertainment they're used to with a lot of American born basketball players to make them appear even better than they actually are. In that regard, Dirk is kind of like Duncan. Not a lot of pizazz or pomp and cir stance. They just get done on the court.

[Phillip]

Being tough doesn't necessarily mean the lack of physicality or not being a banger in the paint. Not being loud or not talking doesn't make you soft. KG isn't tough just because he barks at opponents. That's fake tough. Maybe Dirk used to get that label because he's a 7-footer who is more of a perimeter guy and he's not loud and obnoxious when he scores a basket or flex when he pulls down a rebound. But some people viewed him that way because he didn't. I think the perception also got magnified when David West slapped him on the face and Dirk did absolutely nothing about it. But to me, that doesn't make him soft. It's way more gangsta for a player to not be thuggish, not be loud and talk , let the other team do all of that b.s., and then drop 30 on them and win the game. That's being a cold stone ninja. You don't have to bark like KG. You don't have to flex like Alonzo Mourning. You don't have to dance or hoot and holler after each shot. It doesn't make you soft.

Dirk being soft was more of a product of the American basketball fan not being used to a great player who didn't rely on all the dramatics and flash and fake sports entertainment they're used to with a lot of American born basketball players to make them appear even better than they actually are. In that regard, Dirk is kind of like Duncan. Not a lot of pizazz or pomp and cir stance. They just get done on the court.

This.

You don't see Duncan ever getting involved in nonsense and acting "tough". He just kicked everyone's ass for 15 years and won 4 championships in the process.

[Jacob1983]

The refs tried to give the Heat game 6 in 2011 with the FT attempts but Dirk and the Mavs said " you" to Stern and did not crap out.