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No. '10 sealed him. & he knows it.
Fine. You take that one. I'm stickin' with:::
Kobe: 5
the tired old bag Duncan: 4
No. '10 sealed him. & he knows it.
He would've never won anything without Phil Jackson. He can brag about winning 2 as the man all he wants but the Zen Master was the coach when he won them.
He didn't win a thing with Mike Brown and he's struggling to make the playoffs with D'Antoni.Shaq still was able to lead teams to near 60 wins numerous times even w/o Phil Jackson, something the "Black Mamba" has failed to do so far in his career.
Did I forget to mention mention that Shaq has 3 Finals MVPs while he has 2?
Nope. Not until he gets 2 more finals MVPs and not a second before.
Boiled down:::He would've never won anything without Phil Jackson. He can brag about winning 2 as the man all he wants but the Zen Master was the coach when he won them.
He didn't win a thing with Mike Brown and he's struggling to make the playoffs with D'Antoni.
Did I forget to mention mention that Shaq has 3 Finals MVPs while he has 2?
Kobe: 2
Daddy: 1
3 FMVPs>>2 FMVPs
Mamba was the jealous one because Shaq was scoring the same points as him at a much better efficiency.
I wouldn't hit a dog in the ass with 'em.
Come on, amb. Take Timmy away from Pop, David Manu and Tony put him on Minny ... what does he do? It's a silly argument. No one wins alone. Again we all have biases. Those that love MJ diminish Pippen, Horace, Rodman and Phil even though it took those guys playing key roles for MJ to ring. People diminish Kobe when lauding Shaq yet Shaq could not win with Penny or Eddie Jones as a sidekick and needed the very best from Kobe and especially Wade to win his 5 ... not to mention Zo, Horry, Fox Fish and Shaw. We are all guilty to some degree of allowing our bias to shape our arguments. I really dont see the take this one away argument having merit. So if KG a great defender in his own right ... it playin in SA or Karl MAlone do they have multiple rings? Maybe. Do they win 4 doubtful. And that is the point the best players ...they very best win when they have good support. Malone had a HOF coach and PG but wasnt good enough. Maybe with David and Manu and Horry he wins a couple doubt he wins 4 and that's the difference. The TMC, VC, AI Club is the same ish ...
Or being gifted half of famers. The Lakers never drafted to win it all. They always snagged an in their prime superstar to put next to Kobe. LMAO!!!! Just because its LA this kinda happens.
Though Horry came in mighty handy for you as well. Sure, Wallace needed to walk away from him like CWEBB did for us, but, the result was the same.
tee, hee.
Not to bash Shaq here on his jersey day ...but a case can be made the Del harris teams were better than the 2000 squad, talent wise.
1998 Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Elden Campbell, Fisher, Fox Horry
1999 Same squad minus Van Exel (And later Eddie Jones) but adding Rodman, Derek Harper and Glen Rice
Problem was as good as Shaq was Kobe was not ready yet and DEl was a smart but weak coach. Phil came in inspired Shaq to get in grreat shape and harnessed Kobe and the rest was history ... But he could not win without help ...no one can.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 04-02-2013 at 01:17 PM.
Great point. Did you guys draft Avery or Sean Elliott? What about Steve Kerr?
No one likes the scent of their own piss more than Kobe. The guy just wants people to love him and think he's the best, but the truth is, without Shaq, he doesn't win a single ring. He should be thanking him.
Instead he hunted Shaq down & humiliated him on broadcast television.
Kobe: 2
Daddy: 1
hmmmm....
Kobe 5
Social Security Spurs 4
hey bro? u mad??
Put Timmy in Minny, and would have won it all in 2004 (barring injuries). Duncan is just easier to build around (as well as Shaq) than Kobe. Kobe had Shaq (these kinds of players are once every ten years talent) or one of the most unique/best frontlines in the league (while not being part of it). Yes, nobody wins alone, but top ten players, in their prime, simply do not miss the playoffs during the prime (I already explained the special cir stances of KAJ in an earlier post of mine).
I don't love MJ, and I think Pippen was very underrated throughout his career, and even more so after he retired. Could he have been the player he was without MJ and Jackson? Probably not, and probably not close, but what actually transpired should put him as one of the best SF in the history of the league, but he is better known as one of the best 2nd bananas of all time.
Shaq's time with Penny was shortlived, give them a few more years and a healthy Penny, and Shaq would have undoubtedly won at some point. And Eddie Jones was never one of the best SG in the league, nor anywhere close to a top 200 player of all time, so comparing him to Kobe is just laughable and insulting. The thing I will give Kobe is his amazing longevity, and that alone pushes him a notch above Carter, McGrady and Iverson, but that is like saying Karl Malone > Duncan and Shaq because he performed at a high level for a long time, and I just don't buy that.
Yes, there really hasn't been many players who won it all with a relatively weak supporting cast. Hakeem did it in 94, Duncan in 03, and Dirk in 11.
As for Garnett in SA, he would have won zero rings here. Garnett's problem is that he is not good enough of a #1 scoring option on a championship level team. Duncan was the entire Spurs offense in 03 (arguable in 99), a huge part in 05, and an important part in 07. Garnett just isn't good enough offensively to fill that void.
As for Malone, if Stockton wasn't enough for him, no one would have. David Robinson would have won a championship with a player of John Stockton's caliber. , Robinson never even had a guard of the caliber of Jeff Malone or Jeff Hornecek, and he took his team to 55+ wins year after year.
At the end of the day, a player should be judged on how well he helps his team wins, and guess what, Kobe Bryant NEVER led the league in WS, WS/48, PER, OWS, DWS, even when he had championship level talent around him. The only time Kobe led the playoffs in WS was because Shaq played way less minutes in the 01 playoffs.
Duncan led the league in WS twice, OWS once, DWS five times, Defensive Rating three times (and possibly this year as well), as well as the playoffs as well. The numbers are even close when you put them side by side. In 03 playoffs, Duncan actually had an offensive rating of 116 and defensive rating of 92, that is a 24 point swing when he is on the floor. The best Kobe ever managed was a 17 point swing in 01, and the only reason is because he played most of the minutes with Shaq, who had a 17 point swing of his own. Kobe never had anything close to that in the rest of his career, yet Shaq had a 10 point swing in 00, 14 point swing in 02, and 13 point swing in 04. Kobe in those years either broke even, or was within +/- 2 point swings in those years.
Supporters of Kobe doesn't like numbers, because every single one just shows him to be inferior to Shaq, and every one of the proves that he was a clear side kick to Shaq during the early 00s. Funny thing is, that was actually common knowledge back in the early 00s as well. But some time in the late 00's, ESPN tries to prop up ratings, and start to rewrite history, devaluing Shaq and propping up Kobe as an equal, ignoring all the numbers, ignoring that Kobe + Shaq actually was only 3-2 vs. Duncan in their primes and could somehow say Kobe = Shaq > Duncan despite that record. I mean, really, if Kobe = Shaq, and both of them > Duncan, shouldn't it be a 5-0 record or at least a 4-1? How was Duncan supposed to defeat Shaq + Kobe, both superior players, when he had a hobbled Robinson, an out of control Ginobili, and a Parker who got destroyed by Stephon Marbury and needs Claxton to bail his ass as supporting players?
Kobe supporters ignore all points, and points to the 5 championship rings when comparing him to Duncan, somehow acting like Shaq didn't have anything to do with those rings despite being FMVP all three times. But when they talk about Bill Russell, they go all "but he had 8 HoF teammates
The Spurs drafted Elliott, Manu, Parker as well.
Funny thing is, you just somehow realized (or thought) that the Spurs best non-drafted players were Avery, Elliott and Kerr, while for LA, it was Shaq, Gasol, Odom (well, Lakers, not Clippers), MWP, and Kobe.
I would say that is a pretty huge difference in talent, no?
I have to steal somebody else's old idiotic shtick when I got my pushed in
^_^ you mad bro?
Big man dependant, tbh.
If Kobe wasn't selfish the shaq- Kobe duo could have won more than 6
Not really, but what was your question based on? Was it because you can to rely on old cliches when you don't have anything meaningful to say?
old cliches are the truth, dontit
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