Is there a Bible/ New Testament expert in the house?

[silverblk mystix]

Damn you're stupid.

I'd prefer not to have to take this discussion to private message with xmas. Please either leave or stop being stupid. K, thanks.

lol all you got is more insults

[xmas1997]

Except all of the other Apostles did know Jesus and were sent by Jesus. They were with him during his early ministries, his tantrum at the temple, feasting while running from the law and return to Jerusalem.

That is true.
Yet Jesus as Christ appeared to Paul.
Paul was the only one of them who was a gentile.
And he had his mystical experience directly through Jesus.

It goes without saying that Paul was pretty near fanatical in tracking down and persecuting the early followers. Is it such a stretch to think that he would be just as fanatical after his conversion? I think he would have been, he was still a man after all IMHO.

Again, I do not ask anyone to believe what I do. Believe whatever you feel is most comfortable until it is not comfortable. Then explore where your conscience leads you.
My studies have encompassed most of the major faiths and even Wiccan.
But my beliefs apparently were tailored to me as I grew.

[Blake]

lol all you got is more insults

This subject is way too much for you to handle on any kind of intellectual level.

If the truth is insulting to you then change it. Bring yourself up to this level by getting an education.

[silverblk mystix]

This subject is way too much for you to handle on any kind of intellectual level.

If the truth is insulting to you then change it. Bring yourself up to this level by getting an education.

Here you go again with your insults - is it possible for you to stay away from that?

Is your education level adequate for you to be informed that insults are beneath this?

I still have not insulted you but you persist in spewing these insults. When is it time to speak like adults? Is this thread one where we can agree to speak as adults?

Are you capable?

[Blake]

Here you go again with your insults - is it possible for you to stay away from that?

Is your education level adequate for you to be informed that insults are beneath this?

I still have not insulted you but you persist in spewing these insults. When is it time to speak like adults? Is this thread one where we can agree to speak as adults?

Are you capable?

You don't know anything about the Bible. Sorry, but that makes you incapable of intelligent discussion here.

[Blake]

That is true.
Yet Jesus as Christ appeared to Paul.
Paul was the only one of them who was a gentile.
And he had his mystical experience directly through Jesus.

it took Jesus having to visit Paul and blind him in order to convert him.

Why would you believe in him if he hasn't visited you too?

[xmas1997]

it took Jesus having to visit Paul and blind him in order to convert him.

Why would you believe in him if he hasn't visited you too?

Because I do not know for sure that He hasn't visited me. I suspect that He has, not in the same sense that He visited Paul, but in a different way entirely that is unexplainable and deeply personal.
But I bet He may have visited you too.
Why else would you have this unquenchable curiosity to explore this issue?
Not to mention the fact that your questions are more profound than some on here.
It could be that there are things you have learned that you do not even wish to acknowledge to yourself because they are of such a mind blowing nature that to mention them would set yourself up to ridicule.
And then, maybe there isn't. Only you know for sure, but trust and faith may be the only things lacking.
Whatever the case, you are seeking in your own way, and for that you are to be commended.
We all have our paths, and no two are alike, similar maybe, but not alike.
In a round about way I think I answered your question.

[silverblk mystix]

You don't know anything about the Bible. Sorry, but that makes you incapable of intelligent discussion here.

lol

gotta love the internet - where a re ed monkey can sit at a keyboard and question/judge someone else's education and/or intelligence and at the end of the day all it means -

is that the re ed monkey was feeling a little "salty" that day.

rofl

[Blake]

Because I do not know for sure that He hasn't visited me. I suspect that He has, not in the same sense that He visited Paul, but in a different way entirely that is unexplainable.

There was no doubt he visited Paul and the disciples. I don't think it's too much to ask for him to visit in person.

Why else would you have this unquenchable curiosity to explore this issue?

I'd say it's quenchable. Honestly I was throwing out some bait for skull after his Christian scolding of Tim Duncan getting a divorce.

I like discussing Bible logic, but if you want to eject and say you believe just because you do, that's fine too.

[xmas1997]

There was no doubt he visited Paul and the disciples. I don't think it's too much to ask for him to visit in person.



I'd say it's quenchable. Honestly I was throwing out some bait for skull after his Christian scolding of Tim Duncan getting a divorce.

I like discussing Bible logic, but if you want to eject and say you believe just because you do, that's fine too.

No, I 'm ok.
I enjoy it too, otherwise I would not be here. You never know where the next nugget will come from.
As you probably read upstairs Skull and I disagreed on the Christian issue concerning divorce and before I knew it I was embroiled in a feud. Finally the thread was killed as I think it should have been in the first place.
I have to wonder though at someone who vehemently claims he has inspirations and higher knowledge, that he does not handle himself in a manner that is consistent with the virtues of Christ.
How is it you know so much about the Bible if I may ask? You said you lean the closest to agnostic viewpoints.
And have you studied any other faiths Buddhism, Brahmanism, Hinduism, or Islam? Didn't you mention Zoroastrianism?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

[QUOTE=silverblk mystix;6868197]Why not look to the bible?[quote]

Because we don't know where most of it came from and much of it is obviously false. Why should you give any of it a presumption of truth given that?

Why not look to everything?

Who says we don't that is kind of the point.

Why make conclusions and close yourself off to knowledge?

When the 'knowledge' is false then there is no reason to accept it.

Why judge those who lean on the bible or believe in it or cherry pick or whatever derisive term you throw out?

Because its not true. I feel the same way about people that think the sky is purple or the Earth is flat.

Why assume you are superior because they believe in one thing that you don't? Who said your position or stance was superior?

I cannot speak for aynone else but I do not think I myself am better but I do believe that my methodology is better. I choose to live in a world where it is as its shown itself to be and not how someone else told me it is or how I want it to be.

Truth can be found anywhere. Truth can be slapping you right in the face - - yet you might miss it because it is coming from an "inferior" place.

This is incredibly naive. Untruth can be found anywhere too. when something has demonstrated to be unreliable it does not bear to reason that you assume without basis that something else from it is any different.

[silverblk mystix]

[QUOTE=FuzzyLumpkins;6868410][QUOTE=silverblk mystix;6868197]Why not look to the bible?

Because we don't know where most of it came from and much of it is obviously false. Why should you give any of it a presumption of truth given that?

Who is presuming it is truth? This is why you investigate. This is why you venture into the unknown - to see if there is something there. The fact that you feel much of it is false - may or may not be accurate - but I understand this is YOUR feeling/opinion of it. There is still a chance that it is NOT false. Or the possibility that you did not understand it - or that it was mis-translated or lost in translation along the way. Still - assuming your statement has merit or is true - it does not entirely mean that the REST of it is false. There can be truth in the midst of falseness. There can be wisdom in the midst of anything.



Who says we don't that is kind of the point.

??Well - correct me if I am wrong - but you are saying that since some or most of the bible is wrong/false/inaccurate - then the rest of it is unworthy. This is closing yourself off to possible truth - or in other words - this is making a conclusion - when only a part or parts have been examined.



When the 'knowledge' is false then there is no reason to accept it.

See above. The knowledge may be "presumed" to be false by some - but may not be false to others. Who is to say one is correct and one is wrong?



Because its not true. I feel the same way about people that think the sky is purple or the Earth is flat.



I cannot speak for aynone else but I do not think I myself am better but I do believe that my methodology is better. I choose to live in a world where it is as its shown itself to be and not how someone else told me it is or how I want it to be.

??But this is exactly the world you are living in....some professors told you that this methodology was better and you swallowed it whole and now you identify with it - don't you? No different than people who oppose your views - they also believe they are seeing reality more clearly than you. Who is to say you are right - or wrong? Opinions.



This is incredibly naive. Untruth can be found anywhere too. when something has demonstrated to be unreliable it does not bear to reason that you assume without basis that something else from it is any different.

??Is it really. Maybe. Let us say that you are right. Now let us look at the opposite. Let us say that truth is buried under layers of lies/falsehoods - and you ASSUME - that it is ALL false...so you give up searching...you give up examining...the scientist gives up searching for the cure to polio - because he has only run into dead ends...he ASSUMES - there is no cure? Why should seeking truth be any different? I am not selling you the bible - nor do I promote it - or care if you subscribe - but the truth is not always black or white.

[Skull-1]

Constantinople was founded in 315 and the various councils of to codify scripture occurred. First pope was named in the 4th century. Constantine founded the Byzantine empire. You constantly cite 'Byzantine texts' and other works from the 4th century but for some reason you think that to be unrelated. As I keep saying you have zero sense of history.

I haven't quoted the BMT here. I simply state that I find it a more faithful representation of the original. Feel free to post the Youtube video of Constantine defying prophecy and sticking us with a Bible containing the wrong books, please. You have no sense PERIOD, historic or otherwise.

[Skull-1]

It's actually kind of amusing. He fronts constantly about arguments he has supposedly made and how they are obvious but we are just too stupid to see. Then you call him on it. When he has no retort he makes these claims that we are not worth the time yet he literally has been here for days. It's either that or he completely ignores rebuttals

Whats important though, at the end of the day he has admitted that biblical texts are not consistent.

They are consistent enough that the gnats you strain do not matter. My simple explanations go right over your thick head. Don't ask me about more in depth things until you grasp the simple ones. Sh*thead.

[Skull-1]

it never ceases to amaze me how it seems many Christians in these type of threads either melt down or run away.

Skull happened to do both.

I am still here, but not for much longer. Your original question was answered repeatedly and in depth. Every stray tangent has been answered. You are just not aware enough to see it. I can see it just fine.

[Blake]

lol

gotta love the internet - where a re ed monkey can sit at a keyboard and question/judge someone else's education and/or intelligence and at the end of the day all it means -

is that the re ed monkey was feeling a little "salty" that day.

rofl

if you can't beat em, insult them back, right?

What a hypocritical weakling.

[Skull-1]

Yes, you're en led to pick and choose what you want out of the Bible.

I've never gotten a straight answer from cherry pickers why they bother if they don't believe all of it.

I believe every word of it. But the WAY I believe it is derived from the rules scripture lays out. Not all of it is literal. It is a spiritual do ent. How f'ing hard is that to grasp?

[Blake]

I am still here, but not for much longer. Your original question was answered repeatedly and in depth. Every stray tangent has been answered. You are just not aware enough to see it. I can see it just fine.

No, you ran from the discussion after fuzzy dismantled you.

You are just not aware of how badly he did it to you.

[Skull-1]

from a spiritual or magical point of view, yes, if it's not 100% right, it's worthless.

You can't have contradictions or logical inconsistencies in a book ordained by an unchanging being with unlimited power, knowledge and love.

The you can't. If His purpose is to make the book a mystery then that is a perfectly fine technique to veil the truth. Red vs. purple is not a show stopper in any way, particularly in light of other scripture.

[Skull-1]

of course he did.

It could be that or he could just be lying so as to try and exert control over these far flung cities. Jesus was crucified years before Paul was doing his thing. The only basis that we have for Paul's version is him telling the Gallatians that was the case. We know where Rome is, Ephesus and Galatia for example are over in what is now Turkey.

What I do know is that Paul is big on denunciation and damnation. You know he was big on stamping out an way of looking at things but his own way because he says they are damned because God told him that. He does a whole lot of it and that always struck me as different from Jesus. Except when it comes to government where Paul goes a different route.


Originally Posted by Paul
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has ins uted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

That verse always gives me a chuckle knowing who Paul is/was and where he came from. Paul wasn't there when Jesus was going to Herod's temple and throwing a fit or hiding out in the country to go to people's homes and feast it up or when he returned to Jerusalem for passover. He certainly wasn't there earlier than that although he certainly was one of the people hunting him for the government.

If you want to believe we should listen to Paul because he says so then go right ahead. I am not big on the notion of Popes and Ayatollahs myself. Might as well believe Skull at that point. He seems to think he is special in being able to tell us what is what.

Learn to quote scripture properly. He doesn't say "GOVERNING AUTHORITIES" it is "*HIGHER* AUTHORITIES". Spiritual meaning.

[Skull-1]

Except all of the other Apostles did know Jesus and were sent by Jesus. They were with him during his early ministries, his tantrum at the temple, feasting while running from the law and return to Jerusalem.

Oh come on, now, you know that Paul was just an invention of Constantine. He wasn't special in any way. He obviously put Jesus' Right Hand Man (Peter, who validated Paul, in his writings that you don't believe, btw) under his spell. Basically, we're screwed.

So, why are you appealing to a do ent you are discrediting, bag?

[Skull-1]

one one can most definitely see truth ,sense truth, taste & feel truth.

one can certainly appreciate the bible, admire the writings, glean useful knowledge and remain very open to truth.

[Skull-1]

No, you ran from the discussion after fuzzy dismantled you.

You are just not aware of how badly he did it to you.

I am aware that he tried really hard. I am still waiting for his youtube video of Constantine screwing this whole thing up. See, he has to have just as much blind faith as I do to believe his position. The difference is that mine is backed up with spiritual truth and consistency, along with prophecy that dates to thousands of years before young Constantine made his appearance.

[xmas1997]

Glad you came back, skull.

[silverblk mystix]

if you can't beat em, insult them back, right?

What a hypocritical weakling.

Gave you more than enough chances to be civil - you refused - no worries...

oh - I didn't mean to insult the re ed monkeys - not all re ed monkeys are as stupid and ignorant and angry and salty as you -