NBA: Dirk or KG?

[Killakobe81]

And i love Pau I expect a good resurgent year from Gasol too bad Lakers may trade him to a legit contender this year ...

[Rogue]

Dirk doesn't have as many rings as Tim but they definitely belong in the same tier imho. and just like my Jacob said, Dirk refused to move elsewhere even during our darkest years. Dirk's always been a mav in-heart and he's been sticking with his team through thick and thin. KG had another two superstars playing alongside him the year he rang and he wasn't even the best player on that team, while the 2nd best player on 11' mavs squad was JET? TC, or Jason Kidd? Them all were just role players imho. It's fair to say Dirk is the only superstar in modern basketball who has won the NBA championship with no other superstar in the supporting cast (04' pistons had no real superstar at all)

[Leetonidas]

Tough argument, but I'll have to pick Dirk because of his ability to become unstoppable and hit big shots with ease, something KG has never been known to do in the playoffs

[AchillesHeel]

Dirk: 13
KG: 2

playoff series won as the Alpha

[diego]

Supporting casts that were ty as a direct result of KG's contract.

IIRC the cap didnt exist (or wasnt as punitive) at the time kg signed his contract. Also, other players have had ridiculous contracts but didnt have to pay with ty supporting casts because of their owners' deep pockets / more attractive location than minnesota.

Also, he wasnt responsible for the parade of ty GMs and coaches, the joe smith fiasco etc. The best timberwolves teams were KG teams. I dont see any argument you can make for the wolves having better management than just about any franchise (bobcats?), much less the mavs who, results aside, were a huge story from the moment cuban bought the team.

over dirks career, the mavs spent over 150Mill in lux tax payments.
over kgs career, the wolves and celts spent just over 70mil between them.

I would say that is a pretty huge difference, no matter how much mavs fans like to insist that all those guys were washed up / not worth it.

[Brazil]

KG made more of an impact on both side of the floor, he lead some of the toughest defensive teams of the last decade. But, even if KG was obviously Key in the Celtics lob he didn't dominate the playoffs like Dirk in 2011. That run by itself close the debate imho

[Phillip]

KG is a better all around player.

Dirk is better to build a team around.

If I need choose a guy for my team to take on the leadership role and dominate offensively in the clutch, I want Dirk. If I already have a good leader and dominant scorer on my team (like Paul Pierce), I want KG.

[nowhereman523]

This debate has been over for a while. By 2006, Dirk had already done more with less than KG ever had.

[The Reckoning]

dyurk

[diego]

in 08, KG had a higher PER, higher winshares, higher WS/48, higher reb%, ast%, stl%, blk% than dirk in 11. He lead his team in usage rate, winshares and winshares /48. Dirk had a higher usage rate, better shooting numbers, slightly less turnovers, and also lead his team in winshares (by a larger margin) but actually had lower winshares/48 than chandler. also, the 08 celtics probably destroy the 11 mavs thanks to their defense.

I understand picking dirk and his superior offense, but I dont think its the dominating win some people on this board like to paint out.

[irishock]

Dirk had even better statistical years in 06, 07, 09, and 10. Funny how you guys keep acting like 2011 was his only dominant season ever.

[Prime KG]

It's time for me to weigh in. Everyone (except Spur fans trying to win a KG vs Dirk debate) seems to forget that I was a mythical gargantuan on the court who could dominate every facet of the game, make clutch plays every night, and would have a Bill Russell size ring collection if Wally ing Szczerbiak wasn't my second best teammate for most of my career.

On the flip side, everyone (Except Spur fan trying to win a KG vs Duncan debate) seems to forget what a sorry, nutless playoff choker I was and how I needed 2 Hall Of Famers next to me to win a le, and no there's no ing irony in making that argument when Tim had Robinson, Parker, and Ginobili. None at all.

[Leetonidas]

Sprewell > Wally tbh

[ambchang]

I would pick KG as the better player die to his D, but if I were allowed to only have one of the two as the best player on my team, I'd go with dirk. I that makes any sense.

[Killakobe81]

I would pick KG as the better player die to his D, but if I were allowed to only have one of the two as the best player on my team, I'd go with dirk. I that makes any sense.

It does. As great as KG was Chandler did much of the same things on defense for 2011 mavs. Point being that you can plug in a Noah or Chandler for defense. But maybe only Bird and maybe Durant someday could carry a team as a shooter on a run like Dirk had.

[Killakobe81]

But the fact KG gives you footy defense a reliable mid range jumper and a great passer and screener.

[nowhereman523]

also, the 08 celtics probably destroy the 11 mavs thanks to their defense.

While your entire post is full of distorted reality, I'll point out one thing here - That Celtics core lost to a Lakers team the Mavs swept.

[Phillip]

While your entire post is full of distorted reality, I'll point out one thing here - That Celtics core lost to a Lakers team the Mavs swept.

I don't agree that the 08 Celtics DESTROY the 11 Mavs as he suggests, but honestly, this counter argument is terrible.

Better arguments exist in the fact that the Celtics struggled and were taken to 7 games by two teams that didn't even win 5 games, including one team that was below .500 in a weak Eastern conference.

[HarlemHeat37]

This argument has been exhausted dozens of times on ST, so I won't get into it, but I'll just say that 2006 Dirk > 2011 Dirk, tbh..

Everybody remembers 2011 Dirk because of the Mavs' improbable run, but 2006 Nowitzki was more dominant and unstoppable, until the memory of that run was tainted by Three's historic performance, tbh..

2006 Dirk > 2011 Dirk
2004 Garnett > 2008 Garnett

[Phillip]

This argument has been exhausted dozens of times on ST, so I won't get into it, but I'll just say that 2006 Dirk > 2011 Dirk, tbh..

Everybody remembers 2011 Dirk because of the Mavs' improbable run, but 2006 Nowitzki was more dominant and unstoppable, until the memory of that run was tainted by Three's historic performance, tbh..

I don't disagree with this, however 2006 Dirk I don't think pulls off what 2011 Dirk did. 2011 Dirk had a much more refined post game and was more hardened mentally from the previous failures, which came in handy in all the comeback wins during the run, as well as dealing with the constant waves of double teams and smaller, quick defenders that a younger Dirk had a harder time dealing with.

[ezau]

Dirk's 2011 is more impressive than what KG or Pau has EVER produced. But when you factor both ends I would say:

1. KG
2. Dirk

3. Pau

Why? Because of KG's defense? How could people easily forget that Dirk was rebounding pretty well, especially during the Mavs' 2011 run? Let's put it this way, if you put 2011 KG in a Mavs uniform, do you think he'll be able to carry the Mavs to the championship? The 2011 run is enough to make Dirk the best PF of this generation not named Tim Duncan. Let's not forget that Dirk had to contend with a prime Duncan for most of his career. If Dirk played in the East, he's an automatic fixture in the ECF.

[ezau]

I think most people here are a little butthurt that a white kid from Germany s on their black icon, hence their denial when giving Dirk his due

[FkLA]

The Mavs were built around Dirk, of course they don't win if you plug KG in his place. Just like the Cs don't win with Dirk instead of KG. That's a dumbass argument tbh.

Anyways to the rest...is Olajuwon the best center of all-time? Do you place the same emphasis on peak performance for him as you do for Dirk? And if so why nnot.

[Phillip]

Why? Because of KG's defense? How could people easily forget that Dirk was rebounding pretty well, especially during the Mavs' 2011 run? Let's put it this way, if you put 2011 KG in a Mavs uniform, do you think he'll be able to carry the Mavs to the championship? The 2011 run is enough to make Dirk the best PF of this generation not named Tim Duncan. Let's not forget that Dirk had to contend with a prime Duncan for most of his career. If Dirk played in the East, he's an automatic fixture in the ECF.

Heck, how about even 2004 KG on the 2011 Mavs? Still no championship in sight. Second round at best in a very tough year in the western conference.

[Phillip]

The Mavs were built around Dirk, of course they don't win if you plug KG in his place. Just like the Cs don't win with Dirk instead of KG. That's a dumbass argument tbh.

Anyways to the rest...is Olajuwon the best center of all-time? Do you place the same emphasis on peak performance for him as you do for Dirk? And if so why nnot.

Point is, to put comparable talent.

No team has been able to win with KG as their best player, and probably can't. He will always have to defer to someone due to his offensive limitations.