NBA: Is There A Material Difference In Your Pay Check Between $7.50 vs $8.50 an hr?

[spurraider21]

It's obvious, Kobe was the one constant thing when it comes to winning. Shaq left, got another ring despite playing with Wade, Lebron, Boston. Kobe stayed and he gave a druggie like Lamar and a softy European who by the way is 0-16 in playoffs with out Kobe a taste of championship.

Shaquille was undeniably the dominant figure but Kobe was the best player overall by scoring, hitting clutch shots, defending and playmaking.

yeah Kobe was the constant. thats why Shaq left in the summer of 04 and Kobe was irrelevant in the NBA until the gift in 08. meanwhile, shaq in his first year away from Kobe made the conference finals, and then won an NBA championship in the second year. kobe didn't even pass the first round until 08

[RsxPiimp]

yeah Kobe was the constant. thats why Shaq left in the summer of 04 and Kobe was irrelevant in the NBA until the gift in 08. meanwhile, shaq in his first year away from Kobe made the conference finals, and then won an NBA championship in the second year. kobe didn't even pass the first round until 08

You put Shaq in any of those Laker teams I'm willing to bet he'd also be irrelevant. Agree?

[lakerhaterade]

^ You love reminding yourself of 6. Why don't you put a sig of Allen's dagger instead?

[ElNono]

lol sons he led the Lakers to a 121-125 record during the 3 seasons without Shaq.

I knew he was pathetic as a leader, but I didn't realize it was that bad.

[spurraider21]

You put Shaq in any of those Laker teams I'm willing to bet he'd also be irrelevant. Agree?

so shaq on the team in 04 = in the finals. you suggest shaq on the lakers in 05 and they're suddenly irrelevant?

[z0sa]

If that were true you need to start naming the 10 guys from that era that won back to back no Shaq like Kobe....if what you say is true then T-Mac, A.I, and Vince Carter should have at least 2 rings as does Kobe without Shaq....do you see how easy it is to on your grade school analysis?

lol ignoring the second sentence of the post you quoted

Grade school is hoping no one remembers every defense revolved around slowing down Shaq. In a pick-your-poison contest, Kobe won literally every single time... Shaq's getting double and triple teamed every time down the floor and putting up GOAT numbers while Kobe's being played 1 on 1 yet Shaq still significantly beats him statistically.

Oh yeah, what about those 3 Finals MVPs?



On a different note, but interrelated answering that first part... Kobe and Lakerfan in general really should be thankful for Daddy leading him into the bright lights and championship banners. there ain't no subs ute for experience. Yall owe Shaq big ing time even for 15 and 16, tbh. Hence the whole, plug another perimeter all-star into the equation and similar happens. About the only thing Kobe would have over the VC's of the League without the Diesel would be longevity, and something tells me Kobe might not have lasted so long at the top if he had defenses gameplanning around him 15 years rather than 7 or 8. 7 or 8's being pretty kind, too, since Bean had plenty of talent after Shaq.

It's also worth noting how iron man Kobe mysteriously gets hit by season ending injuries sometimes during situations when the going's rough and the Lakers are fighting for a playoff spot. He might've been just another T-Mac without Shaq.

[Koolaid_Man]

lol ignoring the second sentence of the post you quoted

Grade school is hoping no one remembers every defense revolved around slowing down Shaq. In a pick-your-poison contest, Kobe won literally every single time... Shaq's getting double and triple teamed every time down the floor and putting up GOAT numbers while Kobe's being played 1 on 1 yet Shaq still significantly beats him statistically.

Oh yeah, what about those 3 Finals MVPs?



On a different note, but interrelated answering that first part... Kobe and Lakerfan in general really should be thankful for Daddy leading him into the bright lights and championship banners. there ain't no subs ute for experience. Yall owe Shaq big ing time even for 15 and 16, tbh. Hence the whole, plug another perimeter all-star into the equation and similar happens. About the only thing Kobe would have over the VC's of the League without the Diesel would be longevity, and something tells me Kobe might not have lasted so long at the top if he had defenses gameplanning around him 15 years rather than 7 or 8. 7 or 8's being pretty kind, too, since Bean had plenty of talent after Shaq.

It's also worth noting how iron man Kobe mysteriously gets hit by season ending injuries sometimes during situations when the going's rough and the Lakers are fighting for a playoff spot. He might've been just another T-Mac without Shaq.

err..nice try..but come again...Kobe was doubled on the wings while Shaq was doubled in the post....ball drop into Shaq he's doubled....never tripled unless he was trapped and the opposing team was being opportunistic....but this happens to every NBA player no X's and O's NBA coach will use a triple team strategy to the detriment of their team..again you're spewing non sense and cannot back up your claims ...back to my point on occasions the ball went into Shaq he got doubled...if he passed or kicked out to Kobe..Kobe was then doubled on the wing....it's the very reason why Kobe earned the reputation for such degree of difficulty shots against multiple defenders and why teams (1) game plan around him and (2) hire defensive specialists such as Bruce Bowen with the sole purpose of defending Kobe..I've already and previously listed the elite defensive players given the Kobe assignment..

Your whole argument is like putty...it's like you couldn't think of a legit comeback to my OP so you just started rambling on incoherently about all kinds of silly ...

Again if Kobe's numbers for his first 3 les are better than Duncan's (as Alpha) of the Spurs then it's a ty reality for Spur fan....and lastly what you should be arguing if you want to show your no basketball dummy (which is almost impossible at this point) is in order to show dominance what was Shaq's numbers against the Spurs and particularly against Duncan ...was Duncan so ty that he couldn't play Shaq straight up..If I recall Kobe had to explicitly tell Shaq on one occasion while playing Duncan: "Man slam his ass in the paint stop ing around"...what I remember is Kobe really abusing the Spurs whether doubled or not and Kobe particularly mistreated Duncan....he took his match up with the Spurs personally and it showed...

[ambchang]

Another stupid take by Kobestans, thinking ppg is the be all and end all.

2000, no need to go into it because even Kobestans admitted it was Shaq's team.
2001 - Shaq had 12.7rpg, 3.7 assists, and 2.8 blks. Kobe? 5.9, 5.0, 0.6. Shaq had a 30.2 PER compared to 24.5 for Kobe. He had a 0.245 WS/48 compared to .196 for Kobe (that's as much difference as Kobe and Horace Grant).
2002 - 29.7 PER vs. 23.2. .262 WS/48 vs. .199 (Fisher sits at .154 and Horry at .134).

It's no contest, statistically, Shaq destroyed Kobe in 01 and 02.

Then of course, there's the fact that the NBA changed the rules in 02 to make the league more perimeter friendly, and Kobe STILL couldn't surpass Shaq. In fact, Kobe had a career high of .224 WS/48, while Shaq had EIGHT, that's 8 seasons with a WS/48 >= .224, topping out at a league leading .284 in 2000.

[Koolaid_Man]

Another stupid take by Kobestans, thinking ppg is the be all and end all.

2000, no need to go into it because even Kobestans admitted it was Shaq's team.
2001 - Shaq had 12.7rpg, 3.7 assists, and 2.8 blks. Kobe? 5.9, 5.0, 0.6. Shaq had a 30.2 PER compared to 24.5 for Kobe. He had a 0.245 WS/48 compared to .196 for Kobe (that's as much difference as Kobe and Horace Grant).
2002 - 29.7 PER vs. 23.2. .262 WS/48 vs. .199 (Fisher sits at .154 and Horry at .134).

It's no contest, statistically, Shaq destroyed Kobe in 01 and 02.

Then of course, there's the fact that the NBA changed the rules in 02 to make the league more perimeter friendly, and Kobe STILL couldn't surpass Shaq. In fact, Kobe had a career high of .224 WS/48, while Shaq had EIGHT, that's 8 seasons with a WS/48 >= .224, topping out at a league leading .284 in 2000.

I give u credit for trying but your points are . moot by my OP. Scoring is the holy grail in all sports. Shaqs Rebounds and assists were comparable to Kobes when you consider size and position. In other words Shaq would obviuosly have more rbs while Kobe more steals and assists.

The burden is on you to prove Shaq carried Kobe because Kobe had Derek Fisher type numbers during the 3peat. Thus far I'm kicking your ass in this debate. I relegated you to the PER argument but go back read my OP again and then holla at me.

Spur fan sharing the butthurt lol.

[ambchang]

I give u credit for trying but your points are . moot by my OP. Scoring is the holy grail in all sports. Shaqs Rebounds and assists were comparable to Kobes when you consider size and position. In other words Shaq would obviuosly have more rbs while Kobe more steals and assists.

The burden is on you to prove Shaq carried Kobe because Kobe had Derek Fisher type numbers during the 3peat. Thus far I'm kicking your ass in this debate. I relegated you to the PER argument but go back read my OP again and then holla at me.

Spur fan sharing the butthurt lol.

Given it's common knowledge that Shaq carried Kobe to 3 les, the burden of proof is actually on you, but then of course, I have already showed you WS and PER.

And if scoring is the holy grail of all of sports, then:

Lebron 27.56 > Kobe 25.52. Thanks for letting me know that Lebron > Kobe.

[Koolaid_Man]

Statistically you claim Shaq destroyed when he was better on a margin...because he couldn't stop begging Kobe to pass the ball

You tricks better check my thread le.

[Koolaid_Man]

Given it's common knowledge that Shaq carried Kobe to 3 les, the burden of proof is actually on you, but then of course, I have already showed you WS and PER.

And if scoring is the holy grail of all of sports, then:

Lebron 27.56 > Kobe 25.52. Thanks for letting me know that Lebron > Kobe.

Problem is that's filled with a legit qualifier. Leastern conference play for his entire career and no credible prime defenders and that's the best he can do?

[Koolaid_Man]

Another stupid take by Kobestans, thinking ppg is the be all and end all.

2000, no need to go into it because even Kobestans admitted it was Shaq's team.
2001 - Shaq had 12.7rpg, 3.7 assists, and 2.8 blks. Kobe? 5.9, 5.0, 0.6. Shaq had a 30.2 PER compared to 24.5 for Kobe. He had a 0.245 WS/48 compared to .196 for Kobe (that's as much difference as Kobe and Horace Grant).
2002 - 29.7 PER vs. 23.2. .262 WS/48 vs. .199 (Fisher sits at .154 and Horry at .134).

It's no contest, statistically, Shaq destroyed Kobe in 01 and 02.

Then of course, there's the fact that the NBA changed the rules in 02 to make the league more perimeter friendly, and Kobe STILL couldn't surpass Shaq. In fact, Kobe had a career high of .224 WS/48, while Shaq had EIGHT, that's 8 seasons with a WS/48 >= .224, topping out at a league leading .284 in 2000.

I give u credit for trying but your points are . moot by my OP. Scoring is the holy grail in all sports. Shaqs Rebounds and assists were comparable to Kobes when you consider size and position. In other words Shaq would obviuosly have more rbs while Kobe more steals and assists.

The burden is on you to prove Shaq carried Kobe because Kobe had Derek Fisher type numbers during the 3peat. Thus far I'm kicking your ass in this debate. I relegated you to the PER argument but go back read my OP again and then holla at me.

Spur fan sharing the butthurt lol.

[ambchang]

Problem is that's filled with a legit qualifier. Leastern conference play for his entire career and no credible prime defenders and that's the best he can do?

But that doesn't matter, because ....

Scoring is the holy grail in all sports.

[ambchang]

Statistically you claim Shaq destroyed when he was better on a margin...because he couldn't stop begging Kobe to pass the ball

You tricks better check my thread le.

Kobe shooting the Lakers out of a le is proof that Kobe led the Lakers .... to defeat.

Kobe with no HoF big man = first round exists and missing the playoffs.

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe shooting the Lakers out of a le is proof that Kobe led the Lakers .... to defeat.

Kobe with no HoF big man = first round exists and missing the playoffs.

you're all over the map trying to defend a losing argument and position....whenever you need a sanity check...just refer to my OP

[ambchang]

you're all over the map trying to defend a losing argument and position....whenever you need a sanity check...just refer to my OP

I am referring to your OP, and responding to your post #36 on this thread.

Your original premise is faulty in that scoring is the only metric to determine who is the leader. Richard Hamilton was the leading scorer of the 2004 Pistons, and yet he wasn't even CLOSE to being the leader.

And why are you deflecting? You said scoring is the holy grail of all sports, so why isn't Lebron > Kobe?

[ambchang]

FOURTH best SG of all time according to KAM.
Jordan (30.12) > Jerry West (27.03) > AI (26.66) > Kobe (25.52).

[hehateme]

Shaq replaced Kobe with Wade and still won. Kobe replaced Shaq with his ego and failed to do nothing but cry.

[Buddy Mignon]

Let me ask you s something. Could Pippen run Jordan out of town? Could Manu run Jim out of town? Could Mchale run Bird out of town? Simple logic would tell even a fool that the beta male can't run the alpha male out of town, but when it comes to simple logic concerning Kobe spurfan just can't seem to grasp the concept. History is written by the winners of wars... not the losers. When its all said and done people will remember Kobes heroics and game winning shots, and all they will remember from Shaq is how retired a Celtic and his jersey being purposely hung up backwards. I suggest you all do some research on what that means.

[Buddy Mignon]

Shaq replaced Kobe with Wade and still won. Kobe replaced Shaq with his ego and failed to do nothing but cry.

Kobe replaced Shaq with Pau and still went back to back all while ting on Jim... which I'm sure he has a fetish for.

[ambchang]

Let me ask you s something. Could Pippen run Jordan out of town? Could Manu run Jim out of town? Could Mchale run Bird out of town? Simple logic would tell even a fool that the beta male can't run the alpha male out of town, but when it comes to simple logic concerning Kobe spurfan just can't seem to grasp the concept. History is written by the winners of wars... not the losers. When its all said and done people will remember Kobes heroics and game winning shots, and all they will remember from Shaq is how retired a Celtic and his jersey being purposely hung up backwards. I suggest you all do some research on what that means.

Let me ask you something, what age was Shaq at and what age was Kobe at? The league was obviously moving towards a perimeter game, and coupled with Shaq's age, it should have been an easy decision to pick Kobe over Shaq, but it wasn't, it took Shaq screaming at Buss in a game to prompt Buss to pull the trigger.

History would have remembered Kobe the way you described it (incorrectly, I might add) if he wasn't exposed last year with his horrible leadership and how the Lakers struggled without MVPau.

BTW, plenty of teams picked the wrong guy over the years. Cleveland let go of Kevin Johnson to hold onto Mark Price, Philly let Barkley go, the Lakers let D12 walk ... oh wait, scratch that last one.

[Koolaid_Man]

I am referring to your OP, and responding to your post #36 on this thread.

Your original premise is faulty in that scoring is the only metric to determine who is the leader. Richard Hamilton was the leading scorer of the 2004 Pistons, and yet he wasn't even CLOSE to being the leader.

And why are you deflecting? You said scoring is the holy grail of all sports, so why isn't Lebron > Kobe?

Look at the alltime scoring list and tell me who sits at #4 and then tell me where Lebron is.

[Koolaid_Man]

Let me ask you something, what age was Shaq at and what age was Kobe at? The league was obviously moving towards a perimeter game, and coupled with Shaq's age, it should have been an easy decision to pick Kobe over Shaq, but it wasn't, it took Shaq screaming at Buss in a game to prompt Buss to pull the trigger.

History would have remembered Kobe the way you described it (incorrectly, I might add) if he wasn't exposed last year with his horrible leadership and how the Lakers struggled without MVPau.

BTW, plenty of teams picked the wrong guy over the years. Cleveland let go of Kevin Johnson to hold onto Mark Price, Philly let Barkley go, the Lakers let D12 walk ... oh wait, scratch that last one.

It's Kobe

TOSB 4
Shaq 4
Bron 2
Dwight 0

Deal with it. Get over your issues.

[ambchang]

Look at the alltime scoring list and tell me who sits at #4 and then tell me where Lebron is.

Why are you don't all time now? You quoted per game in your OP.

It's Kobe

TOSB 4
Shaq 4
Bron 2
Dwight 0

Deal with it. Get over your issues.

Your OP had nothing to do with rings. It was all about ppg.