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sure Kobe is more efficient offensively.
but when you factor in Defense, Duncan completely surpasses Kobe and puts him pretty much on a different planet.
Why do you completely ignore 3pt shooting? And why do you want to ignore FT shooting? I want everything to be factored in.so why are you cherry picking stats that weight better on perimeter players (3pt shooting) when you're comparing a perimeter player and a center/power-forward? Rhetorical question, tbh...
Nothing on defensive efficiency? No surprises there...
There's no need to cherry pick, tbh... As Harlem said, Kirby is the better scorer and much worse defender. Duncan is the superior player. There's already stats for that, tbh...
Career OWS
- KB: 123.8
- TD: 90.7
Career DWS
- TD: 94.2
- KB: 49.5
Career WS:
- TD: 184.9
- KB: 173.3
eFG% doesn't benefit any player really. If you didn't take any 3s, your eFG% will be the same as your FG%, it doesn't penalize you for not making 3s, it only benefits you if you make them because they are like I mentioned a million times worth more than 2s.
What is a win-share? If you don't know what that stat is, then you shouldn't use it. Plus it's been shown to not be accurate, for example Drexler had a higher WS than Hakeem in the '95 playoffs and Gasol had a higher WS than Kobe in the '10 playoffs.
sure Kobe is more efficient offensively.
but when you factor in Defense, Duncan completely surpasses Kobe and puts him pretty much on a different planet.
How is this being advantageous to perimeter players? Free-throws are part of the game, period.
Edit: I think Spurfan should definitely know this by now, remember 6? Come back and tell me freethrows don't matter...
Name the players to compare
No you do not. That's why you cherry pick. You cherry pick eFG% vs FG%. You cherry pick offensive efficiency over defensive efficiency.
Next time you start a butthurt thread to defend Kirby, put a little more thought into it... ie: name it "Offensive Efficiency" vs "Efficiency", etc.
Wow. Did everything I write go through your head? FG% doesn't factor in the 3-pt shot. eFG% does. Jesus...
Does FG% doesn't include the 3-pt shot? Of course it does... You rather have eFG% because you want the 3 point shot (read: perimeter guy) to weight more.
lol logic
FG% obviously uses 3pointers, BUT it doesn't factor that a 3pt made is MORE than a 2pt made shot.
Do I need to gve you an example?
Player A: 3/6 FG, 0/0 3PT = 6 points, FG%=50
Player B: 2/6 FG, 2/6 3PT = 6 points, FG%=33.3
Player A is more efficient right? Wrong.
eFG% = (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA
Player A: (3 + 0.5 * 0) / 6 = .5 = 50%eFG
Player B: (2 + 0.5 * 2) / 6 = .5 = 50%eFG
Their efficiency was the same despite Player B's FG% being much lower.
While you're factoring in, factor in the fact the Kobe rode nuts for the 3peat and need another franchise's best player to move on from there, and betwixt he was nary past the 1st. Then factor in how his team once again turned to pure after that other team's franchise player said it. You might consider the rape and how Kobe ran off the best players and coaches as well.
Just a thought. But go on with your 3pt comparison between a PF/C and a SG. It makes more sense.
Player A: 10-20 FG, 0-0 3P, 20 points
Player B: 9-20 FG, 2-6 3P, 20 points
Player A: 50%FG
Player B: 45%FG
eFG = (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA
Player A: (10 + 0.5 * 0) / 20 = .5 = 50 eFG%
Player B: (9 + 0.5 * 2) / 20 = .5 = 50 eFG%
eFG% is clearly the better stat
How did Kobe ride Shaq's nuts when he put up the numbers he did? And then when Kobe got a decent team, he won back to back rings without Shaq?
Kareem missed the playoffs twice and lost in the first round in his prime shows you that you need a team to have playoff success. Duncan is averaging the same amount of points as FGA/game and his team is 12-1, while last year Kobe was busting his ass averaging 27-6-6 on 57%TS and 29-6-7 post all-star break to barely get his team in the playoffs. Was that because Duncan was better? Lol. Kobe just had an awful team and Duncan is part of Pop's great system. You got to put things into context before just saying player A lost in the first round.
Yeah I forgot teams were doubling Kobe off of Shaq
That's been explained already.
But here's a refresher:
2000 NBA Finals
Shaq- 38 PPG, 17 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.7 BPG, 61% FG 96/157----6 games
Kobe-16 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG%, 33/90----5 games
2001 NBA Finals
Shaq- 33 PPG, 16 RPG, 5 APG, 3.5 BPG, 63/110 57% FG-----5 games
Kobe- 24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG------5 games
2002 NBA Finals
Shaq- 37 PPG, 12.25 RPG, 4 APG, 2.75 BPG, 50/84 60% FG----4 games
Kobe-26 PPG, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG-------4 games
Total average stats for 3 championships (15 games)=
Shaq=36 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 3 BPG, 209/351 60% FG, Double coverage
Kobe=20 PPG, 6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1 BPG, 113/266 42% FG, Single coverage
2004 NBA finals 5 games loss
Shaq= 27 PPG, 11 RPG, 2 APG, .6 BPG, 53/84 63% FG
Kobe=23 PPG, 3 RPG, 4 APG, .6 BPG, 43/113 38% FG
Nuts = ridden
By the way, you can clearly see what Shaq was referring to when he called out Kobe for not passing him the ball in the 2004 Finals. Look at every other Finals where Shaq had the most shot attempts, but 2004 had Kobe taking almost 20 more shot attempts at 38% shooting while Shaq was shooting 63%. That cost them the ring.
Kobe's best offensive years came post Shaq. Career high in PPG in 2005-06, career high in eFG% in 2012-13, and a career high in TS% in 2006-07. Most of his 60pt, 50pt, 40pt games came post Shaq too.
How many of his top fg% years came in the shaq era?
Those are single series though. What about the first round? The conference semifinals? Conference finals? What about against your very own Spurs? Against the Kings in '02?
Sure. In 2012-2013, Kobe had Howard and Gasol demanding coverage.
In 2006-2007. Kobe shot the ball every possession. Neither of those examples equated to bettering his team, thus neither equated to him being a better player. Better players make better teams.
I know how eFG% works, that's why I'm calling you out on cherry-picking it.
Made/non-made shouldn't enter the equation at all. Why would you want to reward a player that takes the harder shot when an easier shot can be taken? Well, unless you're a Kobestan.
A layup/dunk is a much more efficient shot than a jumper. This isn't any new discovery. This is why Kirby shooting bricks in '04 when you had a big shooting well over 50% cost him a championship.
His best stretch of FG% was '99-'02. That was because he took very few threes, between 1.7-2.9 3s/game. Since '03 he took over 4 3s/gm with the exception of '04.
Oh so he was more effective at putting the ball in the basket when shaq was there? Cool
Dwert and Gawful sucked
No he wasn't. His 06-07 season was his most efficient season.
So then you agree that Kobe rode Shaq's nuts during the 3peat.
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