Warriors: LOL Stephen "I Wanna Be Kobe" Curry

[DMC]

True, but after seeing the record of GS improve over the course of the thread, a summary for those who've been following and future expectations is what I was getting at.

Not for me, but for those interested.

Right, but if you look at how the balance of the offense shifted to bigs during this stretch, you can see that having a PG heavy scoring game isn't how they've gotten here. I don't think anyone thinks Curry is a ty PG. I think he needs to move the ball more and I've no problem with him taking the volume of shots he's been taking if they are in the flow of the offense instead of that high screen/semi successful play they've run for so long.

In wins this season, Steph has averaged over 10 assists per game. In losses he's averaged just above 8. On the flip side, in wins he's averaged 20.5pts a game, 13th in the league, while in losses he's averaged a league leading 29pts. Some of that is due to Iggy being out, but it's also an indication that although he has the ability to score a lot of points, the team's best results come when he doesn't. We've seen that be the case with Kobe as well, and many have refused to admit it, blaming the team instead (no other scoring options). Sometimes that's the case but not always. The same group who wins when he scores less loses when he scores more. I think that's because they don't defend as well and because the guy who they are covering didn't have to do work on defense.

[DMC]

There's no endgame. DMC is simply the SpursTalk resident critic

There's no endgame. I am pointing out an otherwise hidden aspect of a player's game that people like you seem to either overlook, ignore or be ignorant of. It struck me during the playoffs that Curry's game is a lot like a younger Kobe (minus the athleticism). He can shoot, no one doubts that, but during the times when he was shooting so often and even shooting well most of the time, the team was not doing well. When Curry's shooting was off, and he passed to open shooters or into the paint, good things happened.

I think a great shooter can win games, but a great team can win championships. A great shooter can make a great team into just a good one if he's permitted to shoot every chance he gets and takes that opportunity. Just think "Gary Neal" and if you took the Finals, just a couple games, you'd think he's the best option... him and Green... shoot every time you get the ball. That's not how the Spurs got there and it actually cost them eventually. Curry is better, obviously, all around, but team concept is the same.

[spurraider21]

Curry is 2nd in the nba in assists and is clearly prioritizing getting teammates involved

[DPG21920]

Only thing regarding Kobe comparison is that Kobe has proven nothing with regards to making the shots that Curry can make any where close to as efficiently. Kobe takes more bad shots and makes them at a way less efficient clip. Not only that, he doesn't have the assists that Curry has either.

[DMC]

Curry is 2nd in the nba in assists and is clearly prioritizing getting teammates involved

What's your argument?

[DMC]

Only thing regarding Kobe comparison is that Kobe has proven nothing with regards to making the shots that Curry can make any where close to as efficiently. Kobe takes more bad shots and makes them at a way less efficient clip. Not only that, he doesn't have the assists that Curry has either.

I don't recall even insinuating that Kobe and Steph Curry have similar stats.

[DMC]

This is from an article about Kobe from 2010, and you could change the name to "Curry" and be just about as accurate (minus the obvious).

People love Kobe because he makes lots of ridiculous shots. But why is he taking lots of ridiculous shots? Does he have to? Don’t you usually take those when there are no passing lanes, or when the shot clock is winding down? I’m posing the question. Is it even likely that a team that has had so much success in every arena for the last two years could suddenly morph into those Allen Iverson 76ers teams? Or is it rather the particulars of this Allen Iverson’s play that’s changed his teammates into a misshapen crew—that nevertheless has still managed to take two games so far in this series.


Therein lies my point: This Warriors team is misshapen compared to what they should be or could be. Some might think this is their pinnacle, but I've seen signs from them to suggest otherwise (saw it last season tbh). However, Steph plays the important role in the imaginary "could be" team, he just doesn't rely on bail out shots to do so because he has a game plan and executes it.

[Killakobe81]

Steph is a great young player. Sure, he has a big ego. Sure he could feed his team-mates more.
But personally I dont mind a player that is a bit more aggressive and you need to rein them in ...versus a guy scared to take big shots or worries more about efficiency or FG% ...like a guy in the old days that was scared to fling a 3 pointer at the buzzer because they want to protect their fg%. I dont think anyone here even a Warriors fan (do they still exist?) would argue for "wild chucking" ...
But calling the kid a wannabe Kobe because he chucks a few forced shots a game ... especially when Lebron, Pop etc have commented about the "greenlight" he is afforded and amire his confidence... like someone else pointed out some, of this is on Mark Jackson's system, which if you think about it is similar to what he did at Davidson his senior year. GSW needs him to score but yet he also has to get his team-mates involved. But he also happens to be one of the best shooters in the game. He is getting better at striking a balance. Montae for example, has shown this year how much more efficient he can be with a better coach. HDMD is no RC ...

BTW Durant, Lebron and others seem overly concerned with their efficiency numbers. Not that being efficient is bad, but I hear Lebron/Wade referring to them all the time. Lebron is very stat conscious. But hey as great as he is he could play anyway he wants ... Curry strikes a good balance all things considered.

[Red Hawk #21]

Curry is a chucker.

Yes, he can be at times.

[Red Hawk #21]

There's no endgame. DMC is simply the SpursTalk resident critic

Pretty much. DMC will criticize no matter what the situation is just to try to make himself feel better for this excuse of a thread. It's pathetic. He'll wait for Curry to have a bad game so he can post the boxscore. And when Curry has a good game (As he tends to, he is one of the best point guards in the league, you know) he'll either be nowhere to be found, or he'll just keep insisting that Curry must have chucked to have had such a good game. This is sad tbh...

[AchillesHeel]

Curry's having a career year right now. 23 points 5 rebs 10 assists per game on 44,5% FG and 40,5% from 3 with 8 attempts per game...The kid can ball.

He could be even better if chucked a little less because the Warriors are talented as . They have David Lee,Andrew Bogut,Iggy,Klay,Barnes...all of them are all-star caliber players, period.

Warriors should finish as a top 3 seed with the roster they have...They got 3 guys averaging near 20 ppg and they have great shooters and Bogut has been amazing this year... And they're also on a 9 game winning streak, facing the Bucks,Nets and Celtics next.

If GSW are healthy in the POs, I could see them making the WCF, they're obviously better and healthier than last year.

[Brazil]

Right, but if you look at how the balance of the offense shifted to bigs during this stretch, you can see that having a PG heavy scoring game isn't how they've gotten here. I don't think anyone thinks Curry is a ty PG. I think he needs to move the ball more and I've no problem with him taking the volume of shots he's been taking if they are in the flow of the offense instead of that high screen/semi successful play they've run for so long.

In wins this season, Steph has averaged over 10 assists per game. In losses he's averaged just above 8. On the flip side, in wins he's averaged 20.5pts a game, 13th in the league, while in losses he's averaged a league leading 29pts. Some of that is due to Iggy being out, but it's also an indication that although he has the ability to score a lot of points, the team's best results come when he doesn't. We've seen that be the case with Kobe as well, and many have refused to admit it, blaming the team instead (no other scoring options). Sometimes that's the case but not always. The same group who wins when he scores less loses when he scores more. I think that's because they don't defend as well and because the guy who they are covering didn't have to do work on defense.

/thread

stating like that, everybody can agree.

For me, Steph is not a chuker referential point being Kobe, AI... but he has to find the good balance between involving his team mates and scoring. That's not an easy task especially when you are talented and you can shoot from anywhere. You do so properly when you are a vet, he is far from being a vet and he is doing well in my book.

Parker's life in that aspect is a bit easier once he understood quickly his limitations especially on the 3s, in his case difficulty is to balance penetrations and moving the ball. Being in shape is key here, last year I thought he found the good balance through mostly all the year, this year he is clearly gassed and it affects his decision making during the games. He cannot find consistency, one game taking 15 shots, the other 9, the other 20 etc...

[spurraider21]

its hard to say Curry has difficulty moving the ball when he is 2nd in the NBA in assists

[spurraider21]

this year he is clearly gassed and it affects his decision making during the games. He cannot find consistency, one game taking 15 shots, the other 9, the other 20 etc...

that could be interpreted as several things. playing according to defense, feeding the hot hands on nights that they're hot. you can find similar inconsistencies in darn near anybody's FG figures

[Brazil]

that could be interpreted as several things. playing according to defense, feeding the hot hands on nights that they're hot. you can find similar inconsistencies in darn near anybody's FG figures

true but the eye test tells me he is being erratic a bit on the search of that balance, he was more natural last year. He had FGA < 10 during the 66 games he played 4 times last year, he is already at 6 this season. He is taking the same number of shots than last year more or less per minutes but with more ups and downs.

[AchillesHeel]

tbh I don't think Curry should change anything right now...they've won 9 in a row, including a win @ Miami. I think Curry's been passing the ball just about the right amount with David Lee's recent production. There are 2 other guys averaging 19-20 ppg alongside Curry. Curry only takes 18 shots a game while he averages near 10 assists. I don't see what the big problem is. There are 3 other guys taking 10+ shots a game on that team.

During this winning streak, Curry's only been taking 16.7 shots a game while averaging 10.4 assists. The only things worth criticizing are his efficiency and his turnovers. But they are on a pretty big winning streak so whatevs.

Curry and Kirby don't have much in common. Curry is a better shooter and a playmaker while he doesn't nearly chuck as many ill-advised shots as some might claim. I watch the Warriors often as I think their offense is the most exciting in the league and I don't see much wrong with his game. I think he'll get better at the playmaking aspect as he gets older.

[Killakobe81]

tbh I don't think Curry should change anything right now...they've won 9 in a row, including a win @ Miami. I think Curry's been passing the ball just about the right amount with David Lee's recent production. There are 2 other guys averaging 19-20 ppg alongside Curry. Curry only takes 18 shots a game while he averages near 10 assists. I don't see what the big problem is. There are 3 other guys taking 10+ shots a game on that team.

During this winning streak, Curry's only been taking 16.7 shots a game while averaging 10.4 assists. The only things worth criticizing are his efficiency and his turnovers. But they are on a pretty big winning streak so whatevs.

Curry and Kirby don't have much in common. Curry is a better shooter and a playmaker while he doesn't nearly chuck as many ill-advised shots as some might claim. I watch the Warriors often as I think their offense is the most exciting in the league and I don't see much wrong with his game. I think he'll get better at the playmaking aspect as he gets older.

This. And you cant just look at the numbers. if you watch him ...DPG is right he takes a couple "Heat chucks" a game.
But they are winning. He has a green light and he is still creating for his team-mates. of course his assists are a bit inflated due to their pace.
But I doubt any of his team-mates feel they are not getting enough touches except Barnes, which Iggy is more to blame since he would be starting otherwise ...
I liked him as a player (college/pro) and a commentator but their failings to me fall on their coach more than Steph.

[DMC]

its hard to say Curry has difficulty moving the ball when he is 2nd in the NBA in assists

Who said that besides you?

I said he needs to move the ball around more. I didn't say he was having difficulty doing so. What, is quoting too difficult for you?

Do you not understand how a person with a lot of assists can still stagnate the offense? Offenses that share the ball also share the assists because the best option isn't always one pass from the PG.

[DMC]

tbh I don't think Curry should change anything right now...they've won 9 in a row, including a win @ Miami. I think Curry's been passing the ball just about the right amount with David Lee's recent production. There are 2 other guys averaging 19-20 ppg alongside Curry. Curry only takes 18 shots a game while he averages near 10 assists. I don't see what the big problem is. There are 3 other guys taking 10+ shots a game on that team.

During this winning streak, Curry's only been taking 16.7 shots a game while averaging 10.4 assists. The only things worth criticizing are his efficiency and his turnovers. But they are on a pretty big winning streak so whatevs.

Curry and Kirby don't have much in common. Curry is a better shooter and a playmaker while he doesn't nearly chuck as many ill-advised shots as some might claim. I watch the Warriors often as I think their offense is the most exciting in the league and I don't see much wrong with his game. I think he'll get better at the playmaking aspect as he gets older.

Recently the team has gone more inside out, and that's what I've been saying they needed to do. This win streak isn't because of Curry's scoring, he's had bad shooting nights during this streak but they've gotten it done. That pass to Iggy in Atlanta was better than that 5th row heave against SA, and yes he had other options.

[AchillesHeel]

Recently the team has gone more inside out, and that's what I've been saying they needed to do. This win streak isn't because of Curry's scoring, he's had bad shooting nights during this streak but they've gotten it done. That pass to Iggy in Atlanta was better than that 5th row heave against SA, and yes he had other options.

The team is just very talented overall. They have a top 10 offense and defense. The addition of Iggy + a healthy Bogut makes them a great team on both ends. Last year they struggled on defense.

Curry is not perfect, but he's a great shooter with decent playmaking ability. He's perfect for running that offense. Teams can't sag off him and they can't double him either because they have shooters everywhere and Curry can knock down pull up 3s like they're nothing. A healthy Warriors team is a real threat in the POs.

[spurraider21]

Who said that besides you?

I said he needs to move the ball around more. I didn't say he was having difficulty doing so. What, is quoting too difficult for you?

Do you not understand how a person with a lot of assists can still stagnate the offense? Offenses that share the ball also share the assists because the best option isn't always one pass from the PG.

Nash was racking up all the assists when the Suns had the most prolific offense in the NBA. the warriors have one of the best offenses in the NBA, and the assists are coming from one place. it's not as uncommon as you make it out to be.

[DMC]

Nash was racking up all the assists when the Suns had the most prolific offense in the NBA. the warriors have one of the best offenses in the NBA, and the assists are coming from one place. it's not as uncommon as you make it out to be.

Once again, where did I say it was uncommon? You have a reading comprehension problem, or at least a problem repeating what you just read.

[spurraider21]

I said he needs to move the ball around more.

Do you not understand how a person with a lot of assists can still stagnate the offense? Offenses that share the ball also share the assists because the best option isn't always one pass from the PG.

this is what i was responding to. i replied with the facts that curry shares the ball as much as any point guard in the NBA not named Chris Paul.

i also argued that one guy getting all the assists doesn't mean the offense is stagnant

[DMC]

this is what i was responding to. i replied with the facts that curry shares the ball as much as any point guard in the NBA not named Chris Paul.

i also argued that one guy getting all the assists doesn't mean the offense is stagnant

1. No where did I ever use or infer the term "uncommon".
2. I did not infer that having high assists stagnates the offense. I said "do you not understand HOW a person with a lot of assists CAN stagnate the offense?"

When one person gets a ton of assists, that can be because there's only one pass ever made from the PG before the shot. If that same person registers 25FGA in a game, you can (should) develop a picture that the ball was stagnant between the PG and whatever his 2nd option was, and those assists are often because that 2nd option had a decent night or the PG over penetrated and had to kick out or dump off to another player beneath the basket (wrap around).

Imagine the ball moves around the horn. What's the odds the best shot option is going to come from the PG's pass? Ball movement dictates that the cutter often gets the ball, or that the defense is pulled around leaving someone open in the corner. Curry instead likes to run the high screen, and if a defender shows on him, he dumps it off. That's not ball movement, that's a bail out.

So stop changing my words so you can find something easier to disagree with. I've not inferred anything I haven't said.

[spurraider21]

1. No where did I ever use or infer the term "uncommon".
2. I did not infer that having high assists stagnates the offense. I said "do you not understand HOW a person with a lot of assists CAN stagnate the offense?"

So stop changing my words so you can find something easier to disagree with. I've not inferred anything I haven't said.

you never used the term uncommon. it is possible to make a new point without necessarily trying to refute yours directly. i didn't change any of your words, nor did i false quote you for anything. instead of trying to find grammatical loopholes in my arguments (as you have done for a couple of pages on this thread) why don't you try to actually argue the points. you said a person with a lot of assists can stagnate the offense. i brought up a counterexample, and implied that Curry fits under that category