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Bosh is significantly more talented than Love, and look how that turned out.
Like who? They have a guy who should develop into exactly who they need next to James. Irving and Love don't really fit unless they change their games a lot. If they do that, they just become overqualified and overpaid like Bosh was with Miami.
James needs solid shooters, strong defenders and an elite anchor next to him. Then he needs a great sixth man off the bench to take pressure off him. He doesn't need a maxed-out PG who's inefficient as or a four who jacks up threes and steals boards from his teammates.
Bosh is significantly more talented than Love, and look how that turned out.
I'm not disagreeing that they should get a wing defender and that Wiggins may have the most rookie potential there (with other upsides as well), or even that Love will be reduced usage wise compared to what you are used to seeing. I just disagree that under any cir stances that you don't trade Wiggins for Love. Especially when your offense may be good enough to overcome and shortcomings defensively.
Why are you acting like Danny Green is the only serviceable wing defender in the world? Whether it's FA (Marion, Aminu, Thabo) or trade (Tony Allen, Delfino, Webster, Garcia) or some no name guy like Danny Green was that people haven't really bought into or given a chance (D-League has several guys who have shown good defensive capabilities), there are options.
Bosh did fine with MIA and played a big role in MIA winning les. Love as a second option may very well fare better than Bosh too. While Bosh is much better defensively than Love, I struggle to call him an "elite anchor". Even in reduced versions of themselves, Bosh was huge in helping MIA win so I don't know why that matters so much.
That's pretty much the issue right there. What is the point of having Irving, James, Allen and Miller if you need to trade your best defender for more offense?
So if the Cavs get LeBron what were to happen in a Spurs-Cavs Finals? (I know I'm waaay ahead of myself, but just for fun) As good a shooters as Allen, Miller, and Love are...they don't play much defense. And Irving is also pretty overrated on the defensive end. I woud love to see the Spurs crush LeBron and the city of Cleveland's heart again...
Suuuure Laker deepthroater....
And they cant overpay him, like KnicksSuuuure Laker deepthroater....
It's not that Danny Green is special. It's that the Cavs need an actual plan to get someone at that position. It's not something you half-ass or think about as an afterthought when you're trying to win it all.
Bosh did fine with Miami, but they don't want to max him out because they know he's overpaid. It's one thing to have to max out Love. It's another to give up at least one elite prospect for the privilege to do so.
I think of it like this: while MIA had Wade/Bosh as reduced versions of themselves because of the usage of Bron, they won 2 les and had 4 straight finals appearances. The East (outside of Melo going to CHI) landscape doesn't change much so Lebron should still have an easy path to the finals in CLE.
Does he need Love/Kyrie? No, but instead of Wade/Bosh/Chalmers offensively he now has Waiters (not nearly as good as Wade, but younger) / Love (better than Bosh) / Kyrie. Assuming AV stays he has the anchor as much as he did in MIA.
I would much rather have Kyrie to go to as not only a spot up shooter, but in case things break down/Bron gets trapped vs Chalmers. I would rather have Love's ability to create/carry the load when Bron rests than Bosh. Wade is better than Waiters, but Waiters (if he grows at all as a player) can give you more minutes than Wade. Defensively/Offensively net having Love/Anderson with Bron is better IMO than Bosh/Birdman.
I would rather trade Kyrie, but I don't think it's at all dumb to move Wiggins for Love.
I can see it now. Spurs-Cavs in the Finals with the Spurs prevailing again. The excuse will be "Well this team was too young and raw to win a le anyway."
Lebron is their best defender and with more depth / offensive fire power + the ability to sign a wing defender or trade, Lebron could spend a little more time on defense and not be so worn out because he has help on offense.
OKC with the addition of Pau > Lebron in Cleveland plus whichever role-players he wanted in the team.So if the Cavs get LeBron what were to happen in a Spurs-Cavs Finals? (I know I'm waaay ahead of myself, but just for fun) As good a shooters as Allen, Miller, and Love are...they don't play much defense
So if LeBron goes to CLE you have him, Irving, Varejao, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett, Love or Wiggins depening on what happens, Over the hill Allen and Miller if they sign. Is that 9 man crew good enough to get to the Finals? Maybe. But win it all? I don't think so..
I don't think you can look at the Miami model anymore. It clearly didn't work last year and just barely worked the year before that. And it left such a bad taste in James' mouth that he's considering jumping ship. Why would he want to do that again? He wants a team to take pressure off him on both ends. On offense, that means getting a bench ball-handler and players who don't need him to make shots for them. Defensively, it means getting a defensive ace and a true anchor.
Members of that first group of players aren't horribly hard to find. Steve Blake, Nick Young, Gary Neal are examples who can be had for cheap. They have a few on their team already. Elite defenders aren't nearly as easy to find. Ones who are good enough offensively to fit around James are even harder. Those are the Green, Leonard, Tyson, Ariza types.
So assuming you agree that getting someone like Aminu is reasonably rational for MIA, for basketball reasons, would you rather have Aminu+Love or Wiggins+Reasonable Assumption Stretch 4 offensive big (Bonner/Novak)?
I mean, money is part of the equation, but for CLE it doesn't appear to be a major hurdle at this point. No doubt from a flexibility perspective, keeping Wiggins and going cheap on an offensive stretch big gives you more flexibility but how much does that really matter for CLE right now and going all in on winning (Lebron Max/Kyrie Max)?
James is going to carry the offense no matter what. That's just what he has to do. He may not have to do all the scoring, but he does need to run the offense to be effective, like Parker. There's no reason why he has to carry a defense, though.
Cavs need an interior guy but not sure it's love if items trading away wiggins.
They may be better off keeping wiggins, and trading for a defensive anchor like DeAndre Jordan whose deal expires after this year. they may now be in the Gasol sweepstakes with assets to do a sign and trade. An Andy/Gasol pairing wouldn't be bad in the east.
I'd take Wiggins/Ryan Anderson over Love/Aminu. They already have Wiggins, so they'd just have to trade for Anderson (whom the Pels are reportedly shopping). They'd have to both trade for Love and acquire Aminu somehow, and it's not even like Aminu is a great defender.
There is if your teammates are guys like Irving, Love, and Waiters. LeBron is a crazy efficient scorer and most stats are for offense, but defense is half the game and if LeBron were willing to be a defense-first player he'd be a holy terror.
Well you likely have to take Wiggins out. Probably Anderson too but for the sake of argument, let's say they find a way to keep him.
Miami got to the finals with Chalmers/Wade/Bron/Bosh/Birdman with really Allen/Lewis/Battier/Cole coming off the bench.
I personally think that a lineup of Kyrie/Waiters/Bron/Love/Anderson with Ray/Miller/Thompson/Bennett is better. Significantly.
Kyrie is a much better spot up shooter and playmaker overall. Waiters while not as good as Wade has more upside at this point of his career and has shown some flashes. Bron is Bron. I like Love/Anderson more than Bosh/Birdman and Thompson is better than any bench big MIA had. Bennett looks awful, but at least there is hope there (where Lewis/Haslem looked done). Ray is Ray and Miller seems better than Battier.
That's what the whole discussion is about. You can just have Wiggins as the defensive terror and use James on offense. Then you get the scoring too.
Well there is no doubt that Waiters/Kyrie/Love don't need Bron to do anything for them offensively. He will have more than enough help. However, having a legit scoring big is huge and Love is the best.
I don't get saying it barely worked? 4 straight finals and two wins is working. There is no other way to slice it and this supporting cast (whether you agree with Love vs Wiggins or not) is better than Miami's. Bron (IMO) had a bad taste because his supporting cast was old (not in CLE), couldn't score without him doing everything to set them up (not in CLE) and because management penny-pinched after he took a pay cut.
I don't think have two talented players by his side left the bad taste - it was the above.
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