Foundational Falshoods of Creationism

[spurraider21]

Not true at all. I believe in God and I've never seen him.

your move

[RD2191]

your move

[pgardn]

Robert.

I have you on ignore.

So I can only see your posts when others quote you.
So sorry.

So it's fine for you to believe in things you can't see. You get to choose which phenomena to believe in, but have never actually seen. That's cool. It's your choice. Water as H2O, you have never seen this. But I get the feeling you believe it. Two hydrogen atoms bound to one oxygen.
But living things are the poof phenomena, all made specially on their own. No other explanations will do.

Cool. You don't like Evolution's implications. So it did not happen. Every living thing was specially created on its own.
Its your choice. No one can make you believe anything you don't choose to believe. DMC and Spurraider can't enter your head and flip a switch. Unless you see them do it, or not.

[DMC]

I don't think you get what I am saying about chains. I do believe in one. It's the same one you believe in. It's not a special one like it is in religions.

You can't seem to understand the separation. It's not a hard concept to get, really. Where did god go? Were does a programmer go when they're letting their simulation run? Just because god started it, doesn't have to mean he's constantly tinkering with it.

Again, you keep being stubborn in or equivalency of religion and theism. So you don't understand that there are four genera or belief generated by these dichotomies. You keep insisting there are two by misrepresenting the third genus. You haven't even addressed the fourth genus of atheistic religion. You're missing the entire structure of the issue, which is as bad of a folly as anyone in this thread has made.

The programmer goes into another room, a measurable, knowable and provable room. The programmer himself is knowable. Science doesn't posit that a god started the big bang. That would be the gap I am referring to.

It's as nonsensical to say god did it then left as it is to say god did it and wants you to behave a certain way, simply because there's no logical explanation for the existence of the god in the 1st place and you must make a magical allowance for the god to exist outside of the laws that govern everything else. So you have everything, or the logical, then you have the god, or the illogical. Where did the god go? You seem to be satisfied with thinking it magically slipped into nothing. Does it still exist? Why is it considered by you to be a god instead of just a different form of life?

[Blake]

A blatant attempt to distort, malign, and misrepresent. Typical of people like you on this site. I won't generalize you with the other atheists on here because you give them a bad name. You reflect the fanatical elements of whoever you represent.
Below was what I said IN THE PROPER CONTEXT that you vainly attempt to distort.

This doesn't happen with me and my Christian or other theistic faiths and my atheistic brethren, nor with other religious people either.
We all get along and respect each other and our beliefs, or disbelief, just fine.
Plus we all study and respect the value of science in our lives too.
In fact most of us wholeheartedly embrace science in our lives in varying degrees.

In bold was the proper reference, and was a description of MORE THAN JUST ONE PERSON, thus the "VARYING degrees, since no two of us have the exact SAME degree.
Your hostile at ude neither merits, nor warrants, nor deserves further discussion because you prove you have no idea of the meaning of the word.
The last point I have for you would force me to lower myself to your level to tell you, and that is beneath me.

He quoted you word for word.

Damn you're a sensitive pussy.

[xmas1997]

You are an idiot with major reading comprehension problems.
Right there in BOLD is my proof that I am referring to more than one person (plural), not just me (singular), thus since none of us values science in exactly the same way, that in no way keeps each of US from each having OUR own "different" and particular wholehearted embracements of science.
I also used the word "US" in the sentence to denote the "PLURAL", since there are MANY of US (my friends and I), with no two "wholehearted embracements exactly alike", thus they vary from each other, hence the "varying degrees", idiot!
You don't have to get so mad about it and make it such an issue, but that is your way.


EDIT: You habitually make these misquotes!.
You habitually ridicule.
You habitually distort what people say.
You habitually never ADD anything positive and constructive to any thread topic.
You habitually lie.
And you habitually make stupid after stupid statements.
Thus you habitually troll, and that is the sum total of what you do on this site, and probably in life as well since this site is a microcosm of your life the macrocosm!
That is why you are a joke and a laughing stock to intelligent posters!
Live with it.

[Chinook]

The programmer goes into another room, a measurable, knowable and provable room. The programmer himself is knowable. Science doesn't posit that a god started the big bang. That would be the gap I am referring to.

It's as nonsensical to say god did it then left as it is to say god did it and wants you to behave a certain way, simply because there's no logical explanation for the existence of the god in the 1st place and you must make a magical allowance for the god to exist outside of the laws that govern everything else. So you have everything, or the logical, then you have the god, or the illogical. Where did the god go? You seem to be satisfied with thinking it magically slipped into nothing. Does it still exist? Why is it considered by you to be a god instead of just a different form of life?

The programmers location means nothing to the simulation. It can't measure something like that because it is outside itself. That's the point. You think I am arguing that god is/was in the universe and then left. I am more of the mind that god was never here in that sense, just like a programmer is never in his own simulation.

I think it's clear you don't understand what the word logical really means. You keep tying it to empiricism. (I don't observe god; therefore it's logical to withhold the belief that god exists.) But logic has nothing to do with empiricism. It is a much more powerful form of knowledge than science is.

You demonstrated that by making your false equivalency between religionists and theists. Doing so is illogical, no matter what you've observed, since the words don't mean the same thing. Unless two things are exactly equal, then making decisions on them leads to four outcomes. That is a mathematically demonstrable principle. Your arguments aren't.

[Blake]

[Blake]

The programmers location means nothing to the simulation. It can't measure something like that because it is outside itself. That's the point. You think I am arguing that god is/was in the universe and then left. I am more of the mind that god was never here in that sense, just like a programmer is never in his own simulation.

I think it's clear you don't understand what the word logical really means. You keep tying it to empiricism. (I don't observe god; therefore it's logical to withhold the belief that god exists.) But logic has nothing to do with empiricism. It is a much more powerful form of knowledge than science is.

You demonstrated that by making your false equivalency between religionists and theists. Doing so is illogical, no matter what you've observed, since the words don't mean the same thing. Unless two things are exactly equal, then making decisions on them leads to four outcomes. That is a mathematically demonstrable principle. Your arguments aren't.

So where did the programmer come from

[Blake]

Not true at all. I believe in God and I've never seen him.

Yet we see evolution on a small scale but you don't believe in it on a grand scale.

Lol invisible magic daddy

[Blake]

I think it's pretty telling that I've never met an atheists who wasn't a huge got/ , tbh.

Why did God make gays if he hates them?

[xmas1997]

The programmers location means nothing to the simulation. It can't measure something like that because it is outside itself. That's the point. You think I am arguing that god is/was in the universe and then left. I am more of the mind that god was never here in that sense, just like a programmer is never in his own simulation.

I think it's clear you don't understand what the word logical really means. You keep tying it to empiricism. (I don't observe god; therefore it's logical to withhold the belief that god exists.) But logic has nothing to do with empiricism. It is a much more powerful form of knowledge than science is.

You demonstrated that by making your false equivalency between religionists and theists. Doing so is illogical, no matter what you've observed, since the words don't mean the same thing. Unless two things are exactly equal, then making decisions on them leads to four outcomes. That is a mathematically demonstrable principle. Your arguments aren't.

I agree with you completely and will elaborate shortly what I mean.
But I also tried to get across a few ideas to him and spurraider, yet they were both mired in "absolutes", empiricism, and wanting everything to be "black and white" (cut and dry), which to my way of thinking means "you need to have an open mind" while discussing topics such as these in order to understand where the other person is coming from.
To be closed minded, which they demonstrated to be, is not conducive to having a vibrant open minded discussion, especially when dealing with a topic that contains for the most part hypotheticals and suppositions.
But as you say, and as I also tried to explain to them when I was talking about biblical allegory, if allegory were meant to mean "exactly" the same thing as "fiction" then they would have not need to have two different words.
And just because one is a synonym for the other, this does not make them the same, and especially so for literary writing styles.

I must ask, are you posing the grid that denotes deism (belief in a non-intervening god), atheism (without a belief in god), theism (belief in god or gods), pantheism (the "universe" is a hypothetical god), polytheism (belief in many gods), monotheism (belief in only one God), and agnosticism (not a belief, but an admission that for the most part "I don't know"), or something else entirely?
Granted, theism tends to include deism, pantheism, polytheism, and montheism, whereas atheism ("a" prefix meaning without) does not.
There are others I did not mention such as:
panentheism (god exists in all of nature),
henotheism (belief in one god but not denying the existence of others),
post-theism (belief that we have progressed beyond our need for god),
monolatrism (belief in many gods but only worshiping one),
apartheism (apathy towards god),
non-theism ("disbelief" in god or gods),
and anti-theism ("against" all belief in god or gods) to name a few,
although there are quite a few other classifications that I didn't list including the various subcategories of agnosticism,
and ignosticism (that all other theological positions assumes too much about god),
as well as theological noncognitivism (that religious language is not cognitively meaningful).
So a level playing field is paramount here for any competent discussion IMHO.
It might be helpful to all if we defined the playing field so that it is somewhat level.


EDIT: I should probably mention autotheism too because it is what I most closely identify with.
It postulates that even though God is all around us and everywhere at the same time, God is inherently "within" oneself (within all of us) and that each of us has the duty to become as perfect or divine and as "selflessly" as we possibly can.

[RD2191]

Yet we see evolution on a small scale but you don't believe in it on a grand scale.

Lol invisible magic daddy

The only daddy around here is the dude who was porking your ex wife.

Grand scale is a stretch.

[RD2191]

Why did God make gays if he hates them?

God didn't make gays. It's a choice to receive a wiener in the ass, God has nothing to do with that.

[xmas1997]

God didn't make gays. It's a choice to receive a wiener in the ass, God has nothing to do with that.

God did make blake though, so we have to assume that God is not mistake free.

[spurraider21]

i like how we're having an actual discussion between DMC and Chinook.... and we have blake/xmas/robdiaz just trolling in the background

[spurraider21]

God didn't make gays. It's a choice to receive a wiener in the ass, God has nothing to do with that.

but why would god create men who enjoy and aren't attracted to women?

[RD2191]

God did make blake though, so we have to assume that God is not mistake free.

[Blake]

The only daddy around here is the dude who was porking your ex wife.

Grand scale is a stretch.

Oh I bet Jesus lol'ed at det one.

[Blake]

God didn't make gays. It's a choice to receive a wiener in the ass, God has nothing to do with that.

Plenty of gay in the animal kingdom. Do animals choose to be gay?

if you can pull yourself away from Spurstalk, you should pick up a science book some time.

[RD2191]

Plenty of gay in the animal kingdom

if you can pull yourself away from Spurstalk, you should pick up a science book some time.

We aren't animals. Next.

[spurraider21]

Plenty of gay in the animal kingdom

if you can pull yourself away from Spurstalk, you should pick up a science book some time.

god is just testing the penguins' faith

[Blake]

We aren't animals. Next.

Why did God create gay animals, dumb ?

[xmas1997]

i like how we're having an actual discussion between DMC and Chinook.... and we have blake/xmas/robdiaz just trolling in the background

You should have added yourself to the troll list if you are adding the others because you are being no different than anyone else here, just more forthcoming with the "false accusations".

You can't seem to accept the fact that some of us may know more about this topic than you do.

If you really want to learn something, then see my post #1812.

Then make your false accusation, if you can.

Or quit making them and discuss like some (except blake of course, who never discusses anything) of the rest of us here.

[RD2191]

Why did God create gay animals, dumb ?

Animal is an animal. Not a human, animals don't have laws. Damn son, you really are an idiot.