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"why" is apparently a hard word for you.
you went to a public school didn't you
Xmas have you read Demian by Hesse?
"why" is apparently a hard word for you.
you went to a public school didn't you
Maybe genetically predisposed.
Interesting that you would go that far with an idea of what the creator of this universe might be but stop there.
if I subscribed to your belief, "dunno" wouldn't cut it. The starting point problem would bug the out of me.
I can't imagine that atheists have an easier time with that. "Dunno" is the only way to answer that question truthfully.
As I said, I don't see it as a big deal to have a mythos to that extent. It's fun to propose theories, but that's about as far as it should go.
I don't believe so.
Why do you ask?
By the way, my grandmothers' maiden name on my fathers' side was Hesse.
I've often wondered if there is a distant relation, although Hesse is probably a pretty common name in Austria, like Reagan is in Ireland.
it's even more fun to propose intelligent design theories, test them philosophically and then watch every single one crumble and end with dunno.
I don't even know what to say to that. What do you think it means to , "test them philosophically"?
explain your watch maker belief again
God set up the initial conditions and rules. Then he hit the 'run' button and sat back.
Abraxas.
that wasn't a false accusation. the three of you were just trolling.You sure as did in the quote above in your post #1816.
And now you come with the obvious blatant lie on top of it.
You're being validly called out on it, because you're not doing anything less than any of the rest of us are doing!
what is the reasoning or logic behind that assumption?
Legit question. One is that god doesn't need to intervene if he actually set up the conditions. If the religions are correct in god being omnipotent and omniscient, then there'd be no reason for god to intervene, since the causal chain is calculable by one who has the rules and initial conditions. That's what I've never gotten about religions. If everything is god's will, why would he ever have to show himself or perform miracles?
is omnipotent/omniscient your belief or a sidebar?
Sidebar. I don't see why that would be necessary. Most simulations run until they're over unless the person running them sees an error occurring. So even if god is just some high-school kid trying to get some data for a project, he wouldn't have to be all hands on at this stage.
sbm: we're going to call it "he" for typing sake so no need to slobber all over the thread when I refer to it as that.
If he isn't omnipotent/omniscient how much higher on the evolutionary scale do you believe he is?
no such thing. it existed before us.
tbh nothing is really "higher" or "lower" on an evolutionary scale. if you are successful enough to reproduce and survive, you exist. if not, you don't.
Of course if we skip all the way ahead, the question will always come back to: "who created the creator?"
or what was the creator doing before he decided on a whim to create our universe... or the first universe he created
To me, that's like asking how much farther down the evolutionary scale are the creatures from Spore compared to us. It doesn't make sense to compare them.
If you just mean how intellectually advanced do I think he is compared to us, I don't think he has to be all that much ahead of us. It's more that he would have a higher capacity than humans, like in "The Last Question." Like we can make a universal simulation on a computer right now, but we don't have the knowledge to make the programming delicate enough nor machines powerful enough to run it. I don't think such knowledge and technology is unknowable, however.
it would be foolish to say "humans are higher on the evolutionary tree than sharks"... not every apex predator is "more evolved" per se.
Orcas have no natural predators. does that make them more evolved than other species? or just a more successful branch
You can argue that the word, 'before' doesn't really make sense if god is outside this universe. Time is a property of this universe, so it's possible than things outside of it don't even have a concept of time.
Oh good, we've gotten here. You're right that this is the question people have to ask in order to have a real debate on the matter. I'm gonna go ahead and say, "dunno", so we're all clear that I am not trying to assert something here. I'm just going to say a couple of things about it.
Since time is a function of this universe, something outside of this universe isn't necessarily bound by our concept of time. Therefore, it's possible that something outside this universe could have "always" existed. I do consider that the path of least resistance. The idea that god has to have a beginning and ending is an unnecessary attribution. We assign it because we know only of things that begin and eventually end. We'll get back to that when we actually get to the real question later on.
Beyond that, I'll say that I actually don't have the burden of answering that question, even if god did necessarily have a beginning. It's like asking a scientist to tell you what started the Big Bang before you can accept it. Any answer is unnecessary to the issue at hand. If the universe (existence as we know it) was created, then whatever created the creator is irrelevant to us.
Yes, I agree. This is the primary way Rob's understanding of evolution runs aground. All life as been evolving for the exact same amount of time. We're all cousins to each other. We didn't come from any form of life that still exists today.
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