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Isiah didnt need the refs to win a playoffs seriesthere are people in this world that would take Isiah Thomas over Shaq?
Isiah didnt need the refs to win a playoffs series
but he did have gay sex with Magic Johnson
that's true
He just needed Dumars, Rodman, Microwave, Laimbeer, Edwards, Aguirre, etc...Isiah didnt need the refs to win a playoffs series
Meanwhile, Shaq only had Horry in his prime
ouch CN ting on Kirby fanHe just needed Dumars, Rodman, Microwave, Laimbeer, Edwards, Aguirre, etc...
Meanwhile, Shaq only had Horry in his prime
Not at all. What Isiah did in that playoff game is one of the top three playoff performances ever. It was heroic, it was clutch, it embodied everything that he did in his career. The only reason I'm not outright calling it the best is because there might be a couple I didn't see or have forgotten. If that had been the only thing Zeke did, yeah I'd agree with you, but he averaged over 20 points and over 10 assists for several years before all those talented people showed up on his team and he was able to win les by distributing the ball and being amazingly clutch from both the paint and outside. Dude averaged 21 points and 14 assists one season, with over four boards per game and he's only six feet tall.
Now that I'm thinking about it, it's probably not even arguable that he's top 15.
i'm not trying to chop down zeke here... but that one game qualifier is still silly
Because Shaq couldn't shoot and could barely dribble. Without his strength he's the tallest guy at the post office.
Holy , dude. Stop being obtuse. Do you know how to read?
that's not agility tbh, athleticism sure, but agility? And that's as fast as he ever was, and even in these highlights he still looks like he was the last one coming.
LOL camping in the lane, thats all he does
that's nice, but that doesn't make him agile..
He was extremely quick, agile and athletic for a guy who is 7' tall. Shaq's lack of skills was often overblown; he had great foot work, fantastic passing from the low post, and was a very skilled player. If by without his strength you mean he would be as weak as a 4 year old girl, then he wouldn't be in the NBA because nobody who is as weak as a 4 year old girl can make it to the NBA. But if by without his strength you mean he would have the strength of an average NBA center, then I would disagree with you, I'd maintain he'd still be an all-star level player, especially considering Jamaal Maglore and Jason Williams made the all star team during Shaq's reign.
How is a 7 footer going coast to coast not agile?
How can someone who is not agile spin on alleyoops like that?
Shaq was about as quick and coordinated as any 7' 300lbers in NBA history. I am not sure what you are looking for.
i dont think anybody is arguing that shaq had the best big man "skills" but realistically it doesn't matter. one could argue kobe has more technical skill than Michael, but it doesn't matter. what matters is how effective they are/were on the court. luis scola probably has better post moves than shaq did, but who would you rather dump the ball down to?
well the fact that he was 7' 300lb is exactly the reason why he wasn't agile in the first place so it's a moot point. i mean if you compare him with other 7fters, i'd hardly call him better than below average. Compare him with for example marc gasol and tell me who is more agile.. for a 7fter he was everything but agile.
I would love seeing Marc Gasol pull out some of the moves Shaq did. How was spinning to the basket and leading a break based on strength? That was all on his agility and skills.
a guard attacks him there, it's tournover all the way. And any center can dribble the ball in straight line, really not much agility there to showcase. tbh i can't believe i'm arguing about shaq's agility
I think around top 15 is right about where Isiah belongs. I don't think it's a travesty to keep him out of the top 15 all time, but I think there are arguments to put him in the top 15 as well. Some people underestimate how great he was though, some because most of his career he lived in the shadows of Magic, Bird, and Michael. Some because of his post playing career disasters as a coach, GM, and CBA commish. I do think that gives some bias to how he as a player is now viewed.
Isiah was spectacular to watch. Every bit the wizard with the basketball Magic was, and perhaps more because I think Isiah was a far superior dribbler and his lack of height (compared to Magic) was a disadvantage with some of the passes he was able to make. He was more than that 25 point quarter versus the Lakers. Throughout most of his early career, he was always clutch late in games. Never a really high percentage shooter, but when the game was on the line, you'd want no one else shooting the ball, except for maybe Bird. That 25 point quarter wasn't even his first jaw-dropping playoff performance. Do people remember him scoring 16 points in 94 seconds against Bernard King and the Knicks in the playoffs? That was arguably just as impressive, perhaps more.
The thing about it was that in recorded do entaries and segments on those Bad Boys Pistons, Chuck Daly has been on record saying he asked Isiah to stop scoring as much, stop being the facilitator as much as he was early on in his career. He convinced Isiah that the only way the Pistons were going to eventually win championships was for Isiah to allow his teammates to also shine, in particular Joe Dumars. Sometime in the late 80s before they won their les, Daly asked Isiah to sacrifice his game. He didn't need to be a 20/10 guy anymore because Dumars was fully capable of helping to carry the load. And that's what eventually happened.
Isiah might not go down in NBA history to be on par with Magic and Bird and Michael, however, he very well may have if his career didn't overlap theirs. Think about that too. Amidst and in between the golden age of Magic and Bird and before Michael's 90s reign, Isiah was the only superstar to break through for a championship other than those three, and he was able to help lead his team to 2 of them. I think that in itself says a lot when you consider those three are universally regarded as among the top 5 players ever. Also consider, that even though Daly asked Isiah to sacrifice in the second half of his career which ended up dropping his career statistics, he averaged 19 points and 9 assists for his career. Now admittedly, he got injured and didn't play a couple extra seasons where those numbers probably drop off even more. However, 19 and 9 on his career. Only two other players can claim those career averages, Magic and Oscar, and both are universally regarded as top 10 or at least top 15 players.
There's no disrespect to think Isiah is outside of top 15, but it's also not far fetched to believe he is in the top 15 either.
Did it end up in a turnover? Why didn't a guard attack him? How many centers can pull of that move?a guard attacks him there, it's tournover all the way. And any center can dribble the ball in straight line, really not much agility there to showcase. tbh i can't believe i'm arguing about shaq's agility
I can't believe you are arguing about Shaq's agility either, the guy is about as coordinated as they come.
And elbowing his defender in the face to gain position down low
Please have a talk with the folks at RealGM who ranked him #39.
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...f=64&t=1328924
not bad tbh
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