Woj: Kawhi Wants Max Contract Extension; No Progress Made in Talks With Spurs

[Dverde]

The money and years is already agreed upon...the item holding up the deal is the clause for how many daughters Kawhi gets turn down over the course of the contract. Kawhi wants a set number with numbered cards to hand out to daughters, Spurs only willing to give unlimited daughters at HEB and Academy Sports.

[UZER]

Pay the man!

*John malkovich rounders voice*



KL is they perfect sidekick for a superstar player. But they'll have to Max him out to keep him.

[DPG21920]

*John malkovich rounders voice*



KL is they perfect sidekick for a superstar player. But they'll have to Max him out to keep him.

If that is true, then they should wait and allow him to become a RFA and give him his max contract next year.

[wildchild]

It is not that we care about the money, it is whether or not giving him the extension significantly impairs us bringing in another player when/if Manu and/or Tim retires nex year, re-signing Danny, etc. Who cares about Holt's pocket? No one.

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get compe ive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Or, having assumed the risk of waiting a year so that the team had a more favorable cap situation in 2015, Leonard goes for a shorter term deal next summer simply to maximize his potential earnings. Choosing that path does not have to result from feeling disrespected or acting like a diva.

I wouldn't begrudge him that.

[Mel_13]

I've been saying this as well, but I realize that this fear is unfounded. The Spurs can step up with a Maximum Qualifying Offer, which would prevent teams from signing Leonard to a 2+1 kind of deal. Would stop them from offering a 3 or 3+1, however.

Well, as I've mention in a post just now, Leonard probably won't be able to choose a two-year deal anyway if the Spurs don't want him to.

As far as reasons to extend, it's also possible that Kawhi will accept a Durant-style five-year deal with no options, whereas next summer, he'll want a PO. That may be worth the Spurs getting a deal now.

That's not my understanding of the consequences of a max QO. Maybe DPG can tweet Coon for clarification.

The relevant portion from Coon's FAQ:

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has five options:

He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
He can sign an offer sheet with another team through March 1, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

As I read that, a max QO from the Spurs would not prevent Kawhi from accepting a Parsons-like offer sheet from another team.

Edit: You're right about the Parsons deal. He could sign, as you say, a 3yr deal or a 3+1.

So he couldn't get to free agency before 2018.

[SupremeGuy]

Even if the Spurs were willing to do a 4 year max extension, they would be better served to wait. Not only financially (other teams signing him to a 4 year max and Spurs matching is cheaper than the Spurs signing him to a 4 year max extension) but cap-wise since they can keep Kawhi's cap hold which will undoubtedly be lower than his contract on the books, sign other players then use their Bird Rights to exceed the cap to sign Kawhi.

Literally every scenario that involves waiting is beneficial to the Spurs. There are only 3 scenarios that make any sort of sense for doing it now:

1) They firmly believe Kawhi is a top 2 piece on a playoff team post Duncan and want the 5th year + that has to conincide with them believing the 5 year extension compared to the max later will net them savings.

2) They think he will take a QO and become a UFA the year after (not going to happen)

3) Kawhi in order to get security, is willing to take a 4 year extension at less than max (even then, Spurs would have to believe that savings in doing an extension now outweigh the benefits of waiting and having cap flexibilty next year).

You've convinced me, tbh. Next year it is. It's all about being able to use the Bird Rights to our advantage.

[SupremeGuy]

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get compe ive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.

Well, that depends who retires and whatnot, tbh.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He was willing to invest in other leagues, why the franchise can't pay tax only for a year to get compe ive quickly after Duncan era?

Even if they don't extend Leonard this week, they won't have cape space enough in 2015 to maintain Leonard and Green, and sign a FA big name.
We can't sign a star like Aldridge and match Leonard max offer/sign Green new deal.

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

[Chinook]

That's not my understanding of the consequences of a max QO. Maybe DPG can tweet Coon for clarification.

The relevant portion from Coon's FAQ:

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has five options:

He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
He can sign an offer sheet with another team through March 1, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
If he doesn't sign a qualifying offer, a contract, or an offer sheet for one year, his prior team can submit a new qualifying offer (or maximum qualifying offer), and the player becomes a restricted free agent again the following offseason.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

As I read that, a max QO from the Spurs would not prevent Kawhi from accepting a Parsons-like offer sheet from another team.

Edit: You're right about the Parsons deal. He could sign, as you say, a 3yr deal or a 3+1.

So he couldn't get to free agency before 2018.

Yeah, meant "Wouldn't stop them..."

Of course, giving Leonard a mQO defeats the purpose of not extending him, since it should take up more cap space than his hold would. I guess the team could always agree to a deal with a free agent (and Leonard), then waive the mQO before using Bird rights to reup Kawhi. But obviously, that exposes the team to the same risks of Kawhi bolting as soon as he gets the chance only without the security of having right of first refusal. Still, if Leonard plays well but seems absolutely unhappy with the Spurs' FO (the way Parsons seemed last season), then an mQO is a good way to keep Kawhi on the team for at least three more years.

[Chinook]

Well, that depends who retires and whatnot, tbh.

And whether the cap does a minijump next summer. It's really going to be interesting to see that from the Spurs' perspective. On one hand, that jump would give them the space to sign a max player and reup Lock-n-Lock. On the other hand, the max contracts Leonard and the FA receive will be a lot bigger than the ones they'd receive if the cap doesn't jump. That affects 2017 cap space in a big way.

[Mel_13]

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

There are plenty of unknowns about next summer's cap situation. One certain thing is that a Kawhi extension this summer could reduce potential cap space next summer by 8M or so. Probably fair to assume that accounts for much of the team's reluctance to max out Kawhi right now.

[RD2191]

People keep forgetting the Spurs are different than everyone else and no one is above the team (outside of Duncan/Robinson). Spurs have shown they take care of their own long-term and have the best front office when it comes to winning.

If players don't buy into that, especially non-Duncan type players, then perhaps they don't belong.

Okay, so Spurs around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

[DPG21920]

Okay, so Spurs around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

No need to panick. When was the last time a key FA "bolted" the Spurs? Have the Spurs not had the best FO over the past 12 years? You really think they can't survive Kawhi leaving especially with the mechanisms in place to compenstate teams for their own FA?

[RD2191]

What star is coming here? Spurs couldn't even land big names after winning the le.

[RD2191]

No need to panick. When was the last time a key FA "bolted" the Spurs? Have the Spurs not had the best FO over the past 12 years? You really think they can't survive Kawhi leaving especially with the mechanisms in place to compenstate teams for their own FA?

As I said, what's the plan? Tbh.

[Diego20]

He doesn't even deserve more than 6 mill a year, unless this season he has stats like 20 points per game, 8/10 rebounds per game, etc. But then I see that TS earns like 9 mill a year WTF? What's wrong with Spurs??

[wildchild]

the Rockets believed they had an understanding with Parsons that they'd let him out of his contract a year earlier so that he could get more money faster on the condition that he'd reup with them

Thanks!! I understand now.

The Spurs could and would match (provided the other team didn't have a of a S&T package to offer), but it would both put a constraint on how long they had cap space next summer and make 2017 a year where they have to appease Leonard in order to convince him to stay. The Spurs could end up in a situation where Kawhi walks in 2017 because the team isn't compe ive, where the main reason why the team wasn't compe ive is because Leonard took his money a few months too early

IMO the main reason for that will be the Spurs won't convince another star to play in SA rebuilding mode and a new coach who will have his head coach rookie season in 2017...

However, the Rockets lost Parsons for want to cap space to sign Parsons and "possible" Bosh deal, so the Spurs don't extend Leonard to have cap space in 2015 taking the risk to lose him, then they can't sign a FA star and will overpaid mid talent..It doesn't sound good

[ElNono]

Okay, so Spurs around and Kawhi bolts, then what? What's the plan then? Not like free agents are lining up to play for the Spurs.

Build around Cojo...

[SupremeGuy]

As I said, what's the plan? Tbh.

You're right, the end is nigh.

[RD2191]

Build around Cojo...

I like the way you think.

[RD2191]

You're right, the end is nigh.

Bonner's son?

[DPG21920]

Well, as aweome as I am, I personally don't have a plan laid out for this Class 5 Level Orange Emergency. I am sure with some thought, I could outline a feasible plan A, B, C. The fact is, the Spurs will be the Spurs if Kawhi bolts. May hurt, may set things back some, but they will survive.

[RD2191]

[wildchild]

I'm not so sure about any of that as you are. If Manu and Tim both retire, maybe Bonner comes off the books, we will have quite a bit of cash...what are they? About 10 million for Tim and 7 million for Manu? Belli, Bonner, Daye, Ayers, and Baynes are all off the books as well. I don't understand a lot of contract stuff and cap space rules, but as long as they don't mess it up right now, I believe they are as well structured to bring someone in in 2015 if Manu and/or Tim retires as they can reasonably be expected to be.

Tony Parker $13,400,000
Tiago Splitter $8,500,000
Boris Diaw $7,000,000
Patty Mills $3,578,947
Kyle Anderson $1,142,879
Kawhi Leonard $4,045,894 (if they don't extend him it counts as his qualifying offer)

If salary cap is 66/68M that mean 27/28M in cap space.

The Spurs can't sign Aldridge or another FA star caliber talent and sign Green (Kawhi max deal will be on the books in 2016 season) with that space.
Only Aldridge/Marc Gasol/etc deal is 20M (max contract for players that have been in the league for more than six years is 30% of the cap, which would amount to $19.95 million)
And whatever the cap expected to be in 2016, they obviously would pay tax that year if they sign those three players.

But don't worry they won't pay tax, we know they won't sign Aldridge or Gasol or any FA star...