OT: 2014 Spurs vs. 1992 Bulls

[lefty]

And then karma struck back when the Lakers' hamstrings departed them in 1989. That should've been a three-peat easily.

nah

Pistons would have won in 6

they were the better team both years

[midnightpulp]

Kevin McHale against the twin tower frontline of Dream and Sampson:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s.html#BOS-HOU

Duncan would struggle, though, despite being an inch taller and 50 pounds heavier than McHale, while possessing equally as good a post game and better athleticism.

[Brazil]

Good for once to be on the same side of an argument than my fellow Spurs fans tbh

[Venti Quattro]

nah

Pistons would have won in 6

they were the better team both years

I beg to disagree. The Lakers would have won both series in my opinion. And then thunder struck when Magic and Byron got injured in the 89 Finals

[lefty]

. Rewatch games from the period, and you'll see some of the worst defense imaginable. Hardly any double teams, chaotic team defense, God awful transition defense. Why do you think there were so many 28ppg+ scorers on 50% plus shooting during that time?
.

They didnt double team much back then because players knew how to pass the ing ball; they had good fundamentals and basketball IQ
Same thing for shooting % ... good fundamentals and they didnt take bad shots; there is also the fact that not a lot of players skipped their last 2 years of college (except for a few special players)

[hitmanyr2k]

Spurs in 6

Kiwi will contain Jordan

The Bulls will not contain Green's three point shooting

Jordan will have a hard time with the Spurs' team defense

OKC gave the Spurs all they could handle with a low IQ chucker like Westbrook and a jumpshooting praying mantis in Durant and the ty coaching of Scott Brooks

Jordan, Pippen, Ho Grant and Phil Jackson were on a completely different level on both sides of the ball. And they had shooters in Paxson and Armstrong if the defense collapsed on top of that.

[Venti Quattro]

OKC gave the Spurs all they could handle with a low IQ chucker like Westbrook and a jumpshooting praying mantis in Durant and the ty coaching of Scott Brooks

Jordan, Pippen, Ho Grant and Phil Jackson were on a completely different level on both sides of the ball. And they had shooters in Paxson and Armstrong if the defense collapsed on top of that.

Spurs in 6... No way in the 1992 Bulls were better than the 2014 Spurs, tbh imo fwiw.

[lefty]

Bobby Hansen would have destroyed Kiwi tbh

[Clipper Nation]

Spurs in 5 against any Dad Killer Bulls team except for maybe the 72-win team. The refs would make sure DK wins one.

[lefty]

Spurs in 5 against any Dad Killer Bulls team except for maybe the 72-win team. The refs would make sure DK wins one.

yeah because the refs didnt help DK from 90 to 93

[midnightpulp]

They didnt double team much back then because players knew how to pass the ing ball; they had good fundamentals and basketball IQ
Same thing for shooting % ... good fundamentals and they didnt take bad shots; there is also the fact that not a lot of players skipped their last 2 years of college (except for a few special players)

This old myth again?

All they did was take "bad shots." Mid-range pull ups off a fast break were the norm. The only reason they went in at such a high rate is because no one usually bothered to pickup the shooter in transition.

And look at how Magic lost his in '84 when the Celtics employed a weak half court trap (by today's standards) on him.

The era was entertaining and flashy, but the level of play wasn't as high then as it is today. I know I'm wasting my breath, since you worship 80's basketball, but the game has evolved (that doesn't mean 80's players were worse, since great players can evolve as the game evolves [see Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Duncan, etc], but team basketball wasn't as sophisticated).

[lefty]

This old myth again?

All they did was take "bad shots." Mid-range pull ups off a fast break were the norm. The only reason they went in at such a high rate is because no one usually bothered to pickup the shooter in transition.

And look at how Magic lost his in '84 when the Celtics employed a weak half court trap (by today's standards) on him.

The era was entertaining and flashy, but the level of play wasn't as high then as it is today. I know I'm wasting my breath, since you worship 80's basketball, but the game has evolved (that doesn't mean 80's players were worse, since great players can evolve as the game evolves [see Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Duncan, etc], but team basketball wasn't as sophisticated).

Singling out the 84 Finals

Magic choked that year, but nobody made the same mistake after that

[daslicer]

Jordan, Pippen, Ho Grant and Phil Jackson were on a completely different level on both sides of the ball. And they had shooters in Paxson and Armstrong if the defense collapsed on top of that.

Also factor in how the Heat's aggressive trapping defense which was spearheaded by Lebron and Wade gave the spurs ton of problems back in '13. I remember all the turnovers they forced in that series. Pippen-MJ was at another level compared to that duo they would make it difficult for Parker,Ginobilli,Kawhi to get the ball up the court and would easily force a ton of turnovers.

[Venti Quattro]

Magic choked that year

So did James Worthy. If he didn't give away the ball in Game 2 the Lakers win that series

[LkrFan]

Like almost always, HH is right on. Spurs destroy teams that rely on one person as heavily as the Bulls relied on MJ. You have to have a big that can shoot the mid range, a KG or Dirk type guy. Spurs would have had a harder time against Bird's Celtics tbh.

72 wins will never duplicated. We agree there.

[midnightpulp]

Singling out the 84 Finals

Magic choked that year, but nobody made the same mistake after that

My point was that even a great player like Magic could get rattled by weak traps because teams rarely employed them (teams rarely employed any sort of coherent defensive schemes back then). The era's stats are inflated for a reason. And no, it doesn't have much to do with their "superior fundamentals." 90's players had these "same fundamentals" and scoring nose-dived in the decade, which was primarily the result of better team defense being played by contending teams after the Pistons demonstrated that defense could win championships (it also didn't help that the era's offense was heavily iso-oriented).

Today's game is basically a synthesis of 80's team oriented offense and 90's team defense. You can thank our Spurs (and Colangelo's Rule Changes) for the setting the standard

By all measures, this is the toughest (and most aesthetically pleasing, from a basketball purist's point-of-view) era in NBA history.

[LkrFan]

Quit mythologizing the 80's as some physical, defensive oriented era. Just because they occasionally took each other's heads off like barbarians doesn't mean physical play was the rule. Rewatch games from the period, and you'll see some of the worst defense imaginable. Hardly any double teams, chaotic team defense, God awful transition defense. Why do you think there were so many 28ppg+ scorers on 50% plus shooting during that time?

McHale "beasted" on those same bigs, and Duncan's is a far superior version to McHale. But yeah, Duncan would struggle against the "amazing" bigs of the 80's where McHale didn't

Furthermore, I've already debunked your claim that Duncan "made a living" out of matching up against smaller players. He was always guarded by the opposing team's best interior post-defender, often facing double and triple teams. You should remember when they tried to put a prime Shaq on him and he torched him.

mid tripping again. I mentioned 4 HOF centers in my post. Eaton is probably top 5 in swats. Didn't even mention the HOF PFs Daughtery played against. Simply put: the bigs in the '80s >>>> the bigs Duncan faced. Period.

Funny how you keep bringing up Shaq. He made all NBA defense 2nd team a few times - never 1st IIRC. He's known for dunking on people - not locking you down. He was an adequate defender - hardly great.

And at you trying to clown Lurch. Only the Dream had more low post moves than him. Let you tell it, Lurch was a scrub.

[LkrFan]

Tale of the tape between Duncan and Daughtery :

Career ppg: even
Career rpg: Advantage Duncan
Career apg: Advantage Daughtery
Career bpg: Advantage Daughtery
Better big man compe ion : Advantage Daughtery

Daughtery > Duncan

[LkrFan]

I can't believe this thread is 4-pages and counting.

[midnightpulp]

mid tripping again. I mentioned 4 HOF centers in my post. Eaton is probably top 5 in swats. Didn't even mention the HOF PFs Daughtery played against. Simply put: the bigs in the '80s >>>> the bigs Duncan faced. Period.

Funny how you keep bringing up Shaq. He made all NBA defense 2nd team a few times - never 1st IIRC. He's known for dunking on people - not locking you down. He was an adequate defender - hardly great.

And at you trying to clown Lurch. Only the Dream had more low post moves than him. Let you tell it, Lurch was a scrub.

See:

Kevin McHale against the twin tower frontline of Dream and Sampson:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...s.html#BOS-HOU

Duncan would struggle, though, despite being an inch taller and 50 pounds heavier than McHale, while possessing equally as good a post game and better athleticism.

6'10" and 215 points, zero athleticism, and dominated the best two-man frontline of the 80's.

"But Duncan would struggle."

[Robz4000]

I can't believe Maurice has the most posts in this thread and still hasn't made a worthwhile argument.

[Stalin]

HH and his Spurmfan minions going full re here.

[hitmanyr2k]

don't act like Leonard and Green are weak ass perimeter defender... In a league full of perimeter oriented talent like they are probably the best perimeter defender... For once I will use some HH schtick... Intimidate is so antiquated concept... Nobody needs to intimate to defend properly... You are a fool if you think bulls would spend their time dunking

Not really. I think you guys have been watching the NBA under these pussified rules for too long Intimidation goes a long way but the NBA took that psychological aspect out of the game. Being a Spurs fan you should know this first hand. I still remember the '04 playoffs Tony Parker was having his way against the Lakers in the first two games. Lakers couldn't do with him. He was Speedy Gonzales and making Payton look every one of his 50 years. After Game 2 LA said that and started putting Parker on his ass and roughing him up when he came down the lane. He got intimidated and his game was never the same. And the very next year is when they started ushering in the rules to protect perimeter players and started taking the physical aspect out of the game. The point guards and swingmen flourished under this new freedom. They even took advantage of it and started flopping all over the place to get calls.

I love Leonard and Green's defense and I think they would be your only hope but I don't think they would be enough. Guarding slow-footed Lebron and washed up Wade is not the same as guarding Jordan and Pippen in their physical primes. Once either Jordan or Pippen got past them what's stopping them? There's no rim protector like Zo, Shaq, Mutombo, or Ewing waiting in the paint. It's Duncan, Splitter and Diaw Defensively that would be one of the weakest frontlines the 90's Bulls team has ever seen.

Pop will force them to shoot jumpers and again MJ would score 30 a night, Scottie 20 and then what ? In 96 bulls would have to expect 20 from kukoc and Kerr and in 92 from grant Cartwright ?

in defense obviously Scottie is elite and MJ was in 92 but Spurs ball movement in 2014 could score from anywhere with everybody.

the argument of Spurs went hot is ridiculous Spurs shot same than RS and were less efficient from 3s than 2013... This 2014 team is nowhere close to be 2011 mavs in terms of characteristic... Weak argument.

How would Pop force them to shoot jumpers exactly? He applied that crap defense against Lebron because he could get away with it since Lebron had a weak first step, no offensive creativity to his game and was scared to shoot The Spurs couldn't keep a player like Westbrook out of the paint to save their lives but they're going to somehow keep two athletic, skilled freaks like Jordan and Pippen out on the perimeter? I'm not buying it.

[Stalin]

Tale of the tape between Duncan and Daughtery :

Career ppg: even
Career rpg: Advantage Duncan
Career apg: Advantage Daughtery
Career bpg: Advantage Daughtery
Better big man compe ion : Advantage Daughtery

Daughtery > Duncan

Valid point, Cuckan really getting overrated by these ****** spurmfans, the league has no skilled bigs, whatsoever, and you only as good as your compe ion.

[Malik Hairston]

Are we supposed to ignore that the Bulls were constantly challenged by teams that had John Starks as their go-to guy and teams led by Reggie Miller(an inferior Ray Allen)?..John Starks wouldn't even be a starter on a good team in today's league..

They weren't the 2001 Lakers, they were challenged many times by teams with average talent that "played hard"..

The Thunder match up well with the Spurs because they have Ibaka, a super-athletic rim protector that stretches the floor, which is what bothers the Spurs..without him, the Spurs completely destroyed them last year..the Bulls don't have an athletic rim protector, and the Spurs thrive against mid-range oriented perimeter players, as we saw with Dwyane Wade the past 2 years..

These people are somehow ignoring that the Chicago Bulls were challenged by some of the worst "good teams" in league history.. John Starks as the lead guy ..