That Kawhi-led team though...

[DMC]

They will max Kawhi... I have zero doubts about it. They'll try to be cheap, have Mike Monroe pen a story about Kawhi's injury history to avoid other teams offering the max, but Kawhi will get the offer and the Spurs will match.

After that, it will depend on what Tim and Manu do and how much money they want if they want to come back.

The contract structure could be as important as the amount. KL might not want to take a chance at 5 years of missing the playoffs with a small market team if he can go to LA or some larger market where he can showcase his talent and guarantee him more money down the road. So if a team offers him a PTO after 2, it might go a long way.

[dabom]

Bruce bowen has 6.3 WS in his 10 playoff years and in 120 games compared to kawhis 7.3 WS in 3 years and 58 games. Kawhi is not bruce bowen and we can start talking about how he already surpassed him by a wide margin.

[DMC]

KL is playing at superstar levels alongside Tim ing Duncan while Manu and Tony take turns ting the bed. Please explain what was the difference between 2009,2010,2011 playoffs and 2012,2013,2014 playoffs. enlighten me got.

Neither is playing at superstar levels. Tim is playing great, but superstar level is more than either Tim or KL are doing right now.

You have to go over each year and take it individually to know what changed. The Spurs don't play themselves.

[ElNono]

The contract structure could be as important as the amount. KL might not want to take a chance at 5 years of missing the playoffs with a small market team if he can go to LA or some larger market where he can showcase his talent and guarantee him more money down the road. So if a team offers him a PTO after 2, it might go a long way.

Well, he needs to find a team that will offer such a deal. I'm also sure his agent will be talking about "job security" and "guaranteed contract" and "taking care of his family", while crunching numbers on his commission on the computer behind him.

But you're not entirely wrong. I started a thread not that long ago about that. I think 99% of the time the player will follow the money, especially on his first deal. But Kawhi is an unknown up to an extent, and a player that has enjoyed the limelight already, so if he's more interested about his long-term career, it could get interesting.

[dabom]

Neither is playing at superstar levels. Tim is playing great, but superstar level is more than either Tim or KL are doing right now.

You have to go over each year and take it individually to know what changed. The Spurs don't play themselves.

Clearly in denial.

[wildchild]

They'll try to be cheap, have Mike Monroe pen a story about Kawhi's injury history to avoid other teams offering the max...

I remember that Buck Harvey tried so hard last year with his "Kawhi's agent" article but without success...

[apalisoc_9]

His offense still needs a lot of work, there's no doubt in my mind about it. He's not a natural, and while he's improved, he still has a lot of work ahead of him.

But for the Spurs he's been crucial because our perimeter defense has been since Bowen left and because the SF position is one of the most stacked in the NBA, so you have to have a solid SF to match up, at least defensively. He's also an incredible rebounder, which was another hole the team had due to TD's decline.

oh for sure, but part of it really is how they utilize him..He's still freestyler out there though so it's really hard to gauge his overall offensive capability...sure he takes the most shots, but it's also because he plays the most minutes...

His PnR needs work and his lateral drive are the two main things he needs to work on..Once that's done, he's pretty much a complete player.

We don't even know if he's already good at those two things since Pop has him taking shots on the post and out of a kick out drive...

[apalisoc_9]

Lebron, AD, and KD are the only superstars in the league...

Westbrook has superstar talent as well...

The others are all just star players...

[ElNono]

I remember that Buck Harvey tried so hard last year with his "Kawhi's agent" article but without success...

Oh yeah, it was Buck. There's always a hitman available when the company needs one.

[DMC]

Clearly in denial.

The bane of this forum is you player loving gots who's loving eyes never seen the truths. You think in terms of black and white, because you're functionally re ed children.

[dabom]

The bane of this forum is you player loving gots who's loving eyes never seen the truths. You think in terms of black and white, because you're functionally re ed children.

I just tell it how I see it. Sorry the truth hurts.

[ElNono]

oh for sure, but part of it really is how they utilize him..He's still freestyler out there though so it's really hard to gauge his overall offensive capability...sure he takes the most shots, but it's also because he plays the most minutes...

His PnR needs work and his lateral drive are the two main things he needs to work on..Once that's done, he's pretty much a complete player.

We don't even know if he's already good at those two things since Pop has him taking shots on the post and out of a kick out drive...

It really isn't. Kawhi doesn't really have a defined role offensively outside of the postup and catch and shoot 3 this year, simply because we have better players to do other things. There's at least 3-4 better players that can run a pick and roll better than Kawhi right now, so why have him run it? His passing and understanding of the game has to improve a lot. He finds himself trying to force the issue a lot, and while his shooting has improved leaps and bounds since college, he's still isn't a terribly confident shooter like other scorers in the league.

All that said, he's young, I think he understand his limitations. To Pop's credit, he's taken it easy with Kawhi, only incrementing his offensive load gradually. That's the best way to learn. Not having the pressure every night to go out there and being who you're not (yet). Given time, his best offensive game will come around.

[dabom]

It really isn't. Kawhi doesn't really have a defined role offensively outside of the postup and catch and shoot 3 this year, simply because we have better players to do other things. There's at least 3-4 better players that can run a pick and roll better than Kawhi right now, so why have him run it? His passing and understanding of the game has to improve a lot. He finds himself trying to force the issue a lot, and while his shooting has improved leaps and bounds since college, he's still isn't a terribly confident shooter like other scorers in the league.

All that said, he's young, I think he understand his limitations. To Pop's credit, he's taken it easy with Kawhi, only incrementing his offensive load gradually. That's the best way to learn. Not having the pressure every night to go out there and being who you're not (yet). Given time, his best offensive game will come around.

But can kawhi be a leader, and is he marketable? Asking the serious questions here.

[apalisoc_9]

It really isn't. Kawhi doesn't really have a defined role offensively outside of the postup and catch and shoot 3 this year, simply because we have better players to do other things. There's at least 3-4 better players that can run a pick and roll better than Kawhi right now, so why have him run it? His passing and understanding of the game has to improve a lot. He finds himself trying to force the issue a lot, and while his shooting has improved leaps and bounds since college, he's still isn't a terribly confident shooter like other scorers in the league.

All that said, he's young, I think he understand his limitations. To Pop's credit, he's taken it easy with Kawhi, only incrementing his offensive load gradually. That's the best way to learn. Not having the pressure every night to go out there and being who you're not (yet). Given time, his best offensive game will come around.

That's my point..I'm simply trying to argue against the IDEA that he will NEVER be the guy..The reality is that, we don't know if he can or if he can't..because we've never tried. I'm not advocating a total change in system, even though I know it's inevitable..Pop probably knows this and that's why he's been feeding Kawhi in the last 11 games.

We don't really know Kawhi's maximum potential at this point...Which makes it even more scary because at his current state he's already playing at an all-star level.

[apalisoc_9]

It can only get better at this point for him..

Teams are going to give him the max with that mentality

[ElNono]

But can kawhi be a leader, and is he marketable? Asking the serious questions here.

He got Pop's stamp of approval. For all we know, they'll try.

[dabom]

It can only get better at this point for him..

Teams are going to give him the max with that mentality

Someone that sees the big picture. Kawhi looks amazing on offense and we havent even properly tried to untap that potential.

The spurs are giving him the max and he very well deserves it.

[ElNono]

That's my point..I'm simply trying to argue against the IDEA that he will NEVER be the guy..The reality is that, we don't know if he can or if he can't..because we've never tried. I'm not advocating a total change in system, even though I know it's inevitable..Pop probably knows this and that's why he's been feeding Kawhi in the last 11 games.

We don't really know Kawhi's maximum potential at this point...Which makes it even more scary because at his current state he's already playing at an all-star level.

The potential is certainly there, especially for a kid you already know that has shined at the brightest stage. Like I said earlier, every contract is a gamble, but if you're gonna bet, might as well bet on the young, promising kid.

[apalisoc_9]

Not to mention Kawhi is a badass winner..

He is the perfect example of elevating once game when it the matters the most.

He's one of those guys whose game improve significantly in the playoffs..

Hard to find guys like that in the NBA.

[wildchild]

There's at least 3-4 better players that can run a pick and roll better than Kawhi right now, so why have him run it? ...His passing and understanding of the game has to improve a lot.

Because we need to develop him? Why he can't do that with safe/huge margin for error in easy wins instead of play only 20 minutes those games.

Because 2 of those players who used to be better than him running the pick are playing bad?

However, he has improved a lot his playmaker skills, he's passing the ball really welll this season, maybe better than some of those guys.

[wildchild]

He's not the present and the future, he's not and he won't be the best player on this team? Better lets his game talk for him.

After last game..


A few games ago...


And after those good 6 games, he scored 19.25 points in the last four games.

Damn...he's playing bad?

[apalisoc_9]

Leonard is the best player in the team and I don't know why that so hard to accept..

Duncan has been awful defensively in the last 20 games..Are people watching games?

How is possible for a player leads the team in scoring and is the best defender to not be the best player in the team?

[wildchild]

Leonard is the best player in the team and I don't know why that so hard to accept...Are people watching games?

Well, you know...they're trolling Kawhi just because they can't talk about the bad performances of another guys on the team...

They keep hot this thread to hide that, just like Pop did last WCF and Finals when he sat Tony, to hide him.

[ElNono]

Because we need to develop him? Why he can't do that with safe/huge margin for error in easy wins instead of play only 20 minutes those games.

Because 2 of those players who used to be better than him running the pick are playing bad?

However, he has improved a lot his playmaker skills, he's passing the ball really welll this season, maybe better than some of those guys.

He is being developed. He's got a couple of plays called for him last season (alley-oop play, designated shooter on some Hammer sets). This season the post ups. It's a process where he has the luxury not to have to shoulder all the responsibility and can take baby steps without getting out of his comfort zone. The Spurs also run a lot of highly choreographed motion, and that's a equal opportunity offense, where he can get some more points up on the board.

I disagree about playmaking. While he has improved, he's still fairly raw, and the Spurs need to facilitate a lot to him until he figure where the lines are on dribble penetration, etc. But that's not uncommon. There's very few players that are naturals when it comes to court vision, shooting, above average passing and understanding of the game (I'm talking each individual skill, not all of them together) at his age. He's clearly not a natural offensive guy, but he's learning.

[cd021]

The contract structure could be as important as the amount. KL might not want to take a chance at 5 years of missing the playoffs with a small market team if he can go to LA or some larger market where he can showcase his talent and guarantee him more money down the road. So if a team offers him a PTO after 2, it might go a long way.

I think the Spurs are still the best option over a team like the Lakers, Knicks or 76ers. The Clippers and Warriors are obviously capped out and the Nets are train wreck doused in lighter fluid. So those 3 are really the only big market teams with cap space next season.

The Spurs are closer to being a playoff team even without Duncan and Ginobili than any of those 3 teams with Kawhi. He could make more money if he becomes a star in a bigger market with off the court endorsements but [i would assume] it would be hard for him to leave $90 million guaranteed on the table, especially with his recent history of getting injured fairly frequently.