Tsa

[ChumpDumper]

Remington is one of the biggest and produces all types of ammo. My timeline is specifically for the production of M855.

I said my Googling was limited, but I don't see how M855 would be that different.

I think a lot of them are reluctant due to spending millions on machinery that will produce the next banned bullet.

Looks like the ATF was pretty limited in what it could change. I assume there is a kind of ammo that is still legal to be used in AR-15s. I'd be interested to know what it would take to retool an M855 to a non-banned type.

Anyhow, it looks like Congress could revisit the law they made in the first place to fix the language.and grandfather that stuff back in. Of course it's subject to the regular politics, but it doesn't seem impossible.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I said my Googling was limited, but I don't see how M855 would be that different.

Looks like the ATF was pretty limited in what it could change. I assume there is a kind of ammo that is still legal to be used in AR-15s. I'd be interested to know what it would take to retool an M855 to a non-banned type.

Anyhow, it looks like Congress could revisit the law they made in the first place to fix the language.and grandfather that stuff back in. Of course it's subject to the regular politics, but it doesn't seem impossible.

Was just on the ATF facebook page checking out their M855 comment section. Found this interesting.

"The M855 round does not fit the definition of "armor piercing" as defined in the GCA, because the tip is the only steel part of it, not the entire core. Nor does the jacket weigh more than 25% of the rounds total weight. Therefore you cannot ban the ammunition citing the GCA, but I don't honestly think that will stop you."

And this is what is all about for me as well.

"As a Police Officer in a large city it is very rare for us to encounter a AR-15 style rifle or pistol used in the commission of a crime, let alone against us. Stop using law enforcement as a pawn and excuse for taking actions like this. Criminals are the problem, and they will disregard the law anyway. Lets be straight with all this, these moves are politically motivated. You guys have the stats, you know the number of crimes that so called "assault weapons" are used in. I'm more worried about the next criminal killing me with a Glock then a AR or AK. Legal law abiding citizens shooting some cheap green tip in their yards, at the range, or chambered for self defense are NOT the problem!"

[ChumpDumper]

Was just on the ATF facebook page checking out their M855 comment section. Found this interesting.

"The M855 round does not fit the definition of "armor piercing" as defined in the GCA, because the tip is the only steel part of it, not the entire core. Nor does the jacket weigh more than 25% of the rounds total weight. Therefore you cannot ban the ammunition citing the GCA, but I don't honestly think that will stop you."

And this is what is all about for me as well.

"As a Police Officer in a large city it is very rare for us to encounter a AR-15 style rifle or pistol used in the commission of a crime, let alone against us. Stop using law enforcement as a pawn and excuse for taking actions like this. Criminals are the problem, and they will disregard the law anyway. Lets be straight with all this, these moves are politically motivated. You guys have the stats, you know the number of crimes that so called "assault weapons" are used in. I'm more worried about the next criminal killing me with a Glock then a AR or AK. Legal law abiding citizens shooting some cheap green tip in their yards, at the range, or chambered for self defense are NOT the problem!"

I guess I would have to see the original exemption given to M855s. If it didn't meet the statute in the first place, it wouldn't have needed an exemption.

[boutons_deux]

Fox News guest: Obama shouldn’t ban armor-piercing rounds because ‘tiny bullets’ can’t hurt cops



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/f...e+Raw+Story%29

.... she's showing the size of fellators' s and/or brains.

[m>s]

Boutons come and get the guns put up or shut up. Don't wait for big daddy gubbamint to do all the heavy lifting, If you feel so strongly about something then you should do it yourself.

[boutons_deux]

NRA Top Lobbyist: Obama Admin. Proposal To Ban Armor-Piercing Ammo Is Actually A Move Against Women

"They're banning that ammo because they don't like the fact that women like the adjustable stock and the low recoil" found on the AR-15 platform.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03...-ban-ar/202724

platform?

[DisAsTerBot]

Boutons come and get the guns put up or shut up. Don't wait for big daddy gubbamint to do all the heavy lifting, If you feel so strongly about something then you should do it yourself.

irony explosion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[m>s]

NRA Top Lobbyist: Obama Admin. Proposal To Ban Armor-Piercing Ammo Is Actually A Move Against Women

"They're banning that ammo because they don't like the fact that women like the adjustable stock and the low recoil" found on the AR-15 platform.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/03...-ban-ar/202724

platform?

Dems continue their war on women and pro rape legislation, par per etc

[TheSanityAnnex]

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest is defending a proposal by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms to ban AR-15 ammunition. Earnest calls it a “common sense” approach.

“This seems to be an area where everyone should agree, that if there are armor piercing bullets available that can fit into easily concealed weapons, that it puts our law enforcement at considerable more risk,” Earnest explained when questioned about the ban by White House reporter Fred Lucas.


I'd really appreciate them showing us these easily concealable rifle round shooting handguns. I'd also appreciate just the name of one law enforcement officer killed with M855, just one.

[pgardn]

An armor piercing bullet would likely go right through a police officer without protection thus failing to distribute all that kinetic energy to vital organs and such.

So what's the big fuss...

And just as a question aside: To pierce armor I am going to assume the bullet is very dense, or shot very fast, or both. So... Wouldnt the recoil be on your hand and wrist shot from a hand gun? Seems it would.

[Nero5]

irony explosion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+11ty

[TheSanityAnnex]

Could you find a broader definition to define a group of people? I've already shot down your republican president hope theory. This is being fought by gun owners now, there is no reason to wait two years to vote for some repub candidate. This will be a HUGE grassroots movement, much like Colorado last year except now there will be 70,000,000 potential people to speak up. Every single gun owner will be effected by this if it were to stand.

There is not a group of people that rallies together and forces action more than the gun community. It's not over yet but it is a start in the right direction.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...framework.html

Notice to those Commenting on the Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework

Thank you for your interest in ATF's proposed framework for determining whether certain projectiles are “primarily intended for sporting purposes” within the meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C). The informal comment period will close on Monday, March 16, 2015. ATF has already received more than 80,000 comments, which will be made publicly available as soon as practicable.
Although ATF endeavored to create a proposal that reflected a good faith interpretation of the law and balanced the interests of law enforcement, industry, and sportsmen, the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study. Accordingly, ATF will not at this time seek to issue a final framework. After the close of the comment period, ATF will process the comments received, further evaluate the issues raised therein, and provide additional open and transparent process (for example, through additional proposals and opportunities for comment) before proceeding with any framework.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Texas State Rifle Association
Congressman John Culberson (R-Harris Co) Says Repeal of Amm Ban Immediate and Permanent!
Half an hour ago, Congressman John Culberton (R-Harris Co) called TSRA and asked that we get the message out to our members.

The ban on green tip ammo has been repealed and it's gone for good!

Congressman Culberson chairs a committee with direct influence over BATF and was able to convince those within the agency to remove the ban. We were also told that the ban was actually the first of several. All part of a "research project" designed to review many types of common ammunition which might be armor-piercing.

God Bless the Texas Delegation and God Bless Congressman John Culberson who remembers TSRA members sent him to Congress many years ago and took a moment to call.

And as always,
Keep the faith.

Alice Tripp
Legislative Director
TSRA




Will need confirmation from the ATF directly but even more good news

[CosmicCowboy]

The whole issue was crazy. For those of you that don't really know guns and ammo Obama and his Justice Department thugs made "green tip" ammo out to be this awful cop killing bullet. The Geneva Convention many years ago set up rules for what was and wasn't acceptable ammunition. Expansive bullets were outlawed because they did traumatic damage above and beyond just putting the opposing soldier out of action for the conflict. From a tactical standpoint even, wounding an opposing soldier was better than actually killing them as it took at least two more soldiers off the line to care for and get the wounded soldier back to where he could get treatment.

After years of evolution the US and NATO came up with an ammo that was reasonably priced and met all the qualifications of the Geneva Convention...it would poke a small 5.56mm hole in the recipient and bounce around but would not expand and cause excessive trauma.

This ammo WAS the 62 grain "green tip".

Because this ammo as agreed upon with US and NATO is manufactured in such huge quan ies it also is the beneficiary of economies of scale. It is relatively economical for the recreational shooter to purchase.

THAT is why Obama and his minions wanted to ban it...not because of it's mythical cop killing qualities but because it was relatively cheap to buy and shoot. ALL rifle ammo will defeat a kevlar vest. If you really want for sure cop killing qualities then all you have to do is go to your local store and pay 5X as much for commercial hunting ammo in the 5.56 caliber that is made to expand on impact and destroy tissue in a golf ball sized tunnel instead of punching that small 5.56mm hole.

Is what it is, guys.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I cashed in nicely offloading 2,500 rounds of M8555

Thanks Obama!

[TheSanityAnnex]

lol boutons. Gun fellators better at organizing for hope and change and seeing results than whiny libs

[boutons_deux]

lol boutons. Gun fellators better at organizing for hope and change and seeing results than whiny libs

gun fellators, always for sale and duped, are backed by the $100Bs of the guns/ammo industry, because guns are all about profits, not about 2nd Amendment or Freedom!

[Winehole23]

https://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...framework.html

[boutons_deux]

"the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework"

well, duh, ANY restriction on ANYTHING guns will cause NRA/GOA to unleash, kick their gun fellatin hounds.

[Winehole23]

Obama caved. Good thing too. The 1986 law, signed by GHWB and passed by a voice vote in both chambers, never clearly defined what was to be banned.

Not enforcing stupid laws is a good idea.

[TheSanityAnnex]

gun fellators, always for sale and duped, are backed by the $100Bs of the guns/ammo industry, because guns are all about profits, not about 2nd Amendment or Freedom!

At some point you just have to realize there are 70 million of us willing to organize, push back, and actually get things done. I've continuously told you that whining like you do on the internet will not produce the results you seek. Take a page out of my book and be proactive for once in your life.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Obama caved. Good thing too. The 1986 law, signed by GHWB and passed by a voice vote in both chambers, never clearly defined what was to be banned.

Not enforcing stupid laws is a good idea.

They pulled of the 7n6 Russian import ban and thought they'd be able to pull off this as well. Glad they tucked tail, do not think they expected this kind of immediate blowback.

[m>s]

They ain't seen nothing as far as blow back. They day they actually get bold and try to jam some bull down our throats will be the day it pops off. IM not happy they tossed us a bone here. I want every 2nd amendment subverter tried for treason and hung and a new government that respects the cons ution. These assholes are illegitimate but obviously not stupid.

[m>s]

Every time they start their I go red pill people and create new gun owners

[TheSanityAnnex]

They'll be no need to confiscate guns when there is no legal ammo to shoot from them.

Called it.

They never planned on just M855...they are going after all 5.56

The fight continues. Time to defund the BATF


http://m.washingtonexaminer.com/atf-...rticle/2561422

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on Thursday raised new concerns about surplus military ammo used in popular AR-15 rifles and pistols just days after pulling back on a proposal to ban the ammo because it could threaten police safety.





In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.
"Any 5.56 round" is "a challenge for officer safety," he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called "cop killer" rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not criminals.
His agency's move to ban the 5.56 M855 version was condemned by the National Rifle Association and majorities in the House and Senate and as a result was pulled back though not abandoned. At the hearing Jones said that nearly 90,000 comments on the proposal were received, many negative.
As a result, he said that the ATF will suspend rewriting the "framework" used to exempt armor piercing ammo from sale or use. "It probably isn't going to happen any time soon," he said. Jones also said, "We are not going to move forward."
The 5.56 M855 round, he said, is military surplus, typically has a green tip and was used in the M-16. There are several versions of the 5.56. The M855carries a bullet that can penetrate police body armor, though shooters often debate that.
The ATF singled it out for a ban because more AR-15 style pistols that can shoot the ammo are being produced and presumably could be used by criminals in police shootouts. The AR-15 can also shoot the less lethal .223 round, which was not targeted by ATF in the ban proposal.
Police groups, however, said the pistols are not being used against cops.
The NRA and some 52 senators said they also feared that the ATF move was an Obama administration bid for gun control targeted at the AR-15.