The ST double standard ...

[dabom]

He's scored 10 or less in 7 of the last 9 games. Hasn't done much since he came back outside of a good stretch in early March. At what point is missing some of those shots just the new norm for him? I'm also obviously not advocating shifting the offense to the offense of the prime Duncan days. The first option should always be team ball, but after that the main individual option should be Kawhi not Enrique. That's how it was during that dominant stretch of the winning streak where Rique mostly just stayed out of the way.

Also as I've been saying FGAs is an overly simplistic way to look at things. Kawhi is a physical specimen that can get his shot off pretty easily, Enrique is an over the hill PG. The fact that Kawhi was able to get more shots off doesn't change the fact that the offensive attack was centered around Rique.

All you need is the coffin for this .

[DPG21920]

Boston Celtics: Offense mostly run through IT and Evan Turner (best ball handlers)
Brooklyn Nets: Deron Williams (don't even bother passing to Brook Lopez) or JJ (best ball handlers)
New York Knicks: Who cares
Philadelphia 76ers: Who cares
Toronto Raptors: Kyle Lowry (higher usage rate than TP, best ball handler, despite have a low post option in JV)

Chicago Bulls: Rose/Jimmy - they do run a lot through Pau, but when Rose is healthy, he gets the bulk of usage (best BH)
Cleveland Cavaliers: Lebron/Kyrie - obviously this ties into them being the best players, but most best players also best BH
Detroit Pistons: Who cares.
Indiana Pacers: Even with Hibbert, they rely on their best ball handlers even when they aren't great BH's.
Milwaukee Bucks: Traded for guys that can't even shoot just because they can handle the ball.

Atlanta Hawks: Similar to Spurs. Not a crazy usage rate and spread things around when it comes to shots.
Charlotte Hornets: Terrible chucker Kemba has a high usage rate even though they do run things through Al Jefferson.
Miami Heat: Wade/Dragic
Orlando Magic: They run offense through a big man here. Pretty rare as you can see.
Washington Wizards: John Wall gets the ball despite mediocre shooting because he's best ball handler.

Dallas Mavericks: Good system, Monta was getting a lot offense run through him and it was working well.
Houston Rockets: Harden - best ball handler and best player.
Memphis Grizzlies: One of the very few teams that runs offense through their bigs.
New Orleans Pelicans: Very guard heavy team despite having AD
San Antonio Spurs: TP runs the show, but the system is the offense. Spread around, low usage rates for a top team.

Denver Nuggets: Ty Lawson
Minnesota Timberwolves: Who cares.
Oklahoma City Thunder: Lol Westbrook
Portland Trail Blazers: Lol Lillard (even though LA gets offense through him too)
Utah Jazz: Who cares

Golden State Warriors: Curry
Los Angeles Clippers: Paul
Los Angeles Lakers: Who cares.
Phoenix Suns: Who cares.
Sacramento Kings: One of the few teams that runs offense through someone not their best ball handler.

There is only 3-4 teams in the NBA where the best ball handler doesn't spearhead the offense and where that the best ball handler doesn't coincide with that person typically being their best offensive player. It's not like it used to be. High usage rates for the best ball handlers is the most common thing. In fact, the Spurs with TP are opposite than most teams with their best ball handler not having a really high usage rate and shot distribution.

[FkLA]

Let's just leave the word complimentary out of the equation.

Would you say the offensive attack was centered around Kawhi? If he's being called the best player on the team and it's being said that because of that he deserves the bulk of the blame then the offense must've been centered around him, right?

[DPG21920]

He's scored 10 or less in 7 of the last 9 games. Hasn't done much since he came back outside of a good stretch in early March. At what point is missing some of those shots just the new norm for him? I'm also obviously not advocating shifting the offense to the offense of the prime Duncan days. The first option should always be team ball, but after that the main individual option should be Kawhi not Enrique. That's how it was during that dominant stretch of the winning streak where Rique mostly just stayed out of the way.

Also as I've been saying FGAs is an overly simplistic way to look at things. Kawhi is a physical specimen that can get his shot off pretty easily, Enrique is an over the hill PG. The fact that Kawhi was able to get more shots off doesn't change the fact that the offensive attack was centered around Rique.

The game plan was to limit Kawhi's attempts by aggressively doubling. He still ended up with more shots than TP. Like most games, the shot distribution was fairly even. Spurs got many good shots, but they also had a lot of terrible possessions, many of which stemming from Kawhi/Spurs not handling Kawhi getting doubled very well.

[dabom]

Boston Celtics: Offense mostly run through IT and Evan Turner (best ball handlers)
Brooklyn Nets: Deron Williams (don't even bother passing to Brook Lopez) or JJ (best ball handlers)
New York Knicks: Who cares
Philadelphia 76ers: Who cares
Toronto Raptors: Kyle Lowry (higher usage rate than TP, best ball handler, despite have a low post option in JV)

Chicago Bulls: Rose/Jimmy - they do run a lot through Pau, but when Rose is healthy, he gets the bulk of usage (best BH)
Cleveland Cavaliers: Lebron/Kyrie - obviously this ties into them being the best players, but most best players also best BH
Detroit Pistons: Who cares.
Indiana Pacers: Even with Hibbert, they rely on their best ball handlers even when they aren't great BH's.
Milwaukee Bucks: Traded for guys that can't even shoot just because they can handle the ball.

Atlanta Hawks: Similar to Spurs. Not a crazy usage rate and spread things around when it comes to shots.
Charlotte Hornets: Terrible chucker Kemba has a high usage rate even though they do run things through Al Jefferson.
Miami Heat: Wade/Dragic
Orlando Magic: They run offense through a big man here. Pretty rare as you can see.
Washington Wizards: John Wall gets the ball despite mediocre shooting because he's best ball handler.

Dallas Mavericks: Good system, Monta was getting a lot offense run through him and it was working well.
Houston Rockets: Harden - best ball handler and best player.
Memphis Grizzlies: One of the very few teams that runs offense through their bigs.
New Orleans Pelicans: Very guard heavy team despite having AD
San Antonio Spurs: TP runs the show, but the system is the offense. Spread around, low usage rates for a top team.

Denver Nuggets: Ty Lawson
Minnesota Timberwolves: Who cares.
Oklahoma City Thunder: Lol Westbrook
Portland Trail Blazers: Lol Lillard (even though LA gets offense through him too)
Utah Jazz: Who cares

Golden State Warriors: Curry
Los Angeles Clippers: Paul
Los Angeles Lakers: Who cares.
Phoenix Suns: Who cares.
Sacramento Kings: One of the few teams that runs offense through someone not their best ball handler.

There is only 3-4 teams in the NBA where the best ball handler doesn't spearhead the offense and where that the best ball handler doesn't coincide with that person typically being their best offensive player. It's not like it used to be. High usage rates for the best ball handlers is the most common thing. In fact, the Spurs with TP are opposite than most teams with their best ball handler not having a really high usage rate and shot distribution.

Good way too list most of the teams but then decide to "lol" or who cares when it doesn't fit your ideology. Nice.

[DPG21920]

Let's just leave the word complimentary out of the equation.

Would you say the offensive attack was centered around Kawhi? If he's being called the best player on the team and it's being said that because of that he deserves the bulk of the blame then the offense must've been centered around him, right?

Kawhi is one of the oddest players in the league and is really changing the definition of "Main Guy" IMO. Traditionally, I would say yes, the main guy should have the offense run through them. But in this NBA, with Kawhi's flaws and the Spurs system, it's not a normal thing.

The system is the offense. Again, even though TP is still a huge part of the offense and gets his shots, he's not some gigantic usage hog like other guys who have the offense "run through them". The system gets guys all across the board many shots. Would I like to see Kawhi with 16 shots and TP 9? Sure, I would be ok with that, but the system gets guys like Green as many shots as TP sometimes too.

[DPG21920]

Also, within each game, things change. I don't think TP took a bunch of bad shots, so I'm ok with his 11 shots. Especially when you factor in Kawhi getting doubled big time in an area he gets many of his shots. Do I want the Spurs to adjust and get him in other places where they can't double? Sure, but that's more on Pop than TP.

I would have absolutely hated for TP to give the ball to Kawhi in the spots he was getting doubled last night because nothing good was coming from that. For the same reasons it's hard to run offense through Kawhi: Limited ball handling and passing. He's gotten much better, but those were tough spots for him last night with the Clippers obviously game planning for him.

[dabom]

I want kawhi at 20 shots every game. And 8 shots int he first quarter every game.

[Silver&Black]

No, you're argument is that Kawhi should receive the blame because of a flawed plus/minus stat. Any non biased observer can see that Kawhi was one of the main reasons the Spurs were even in the game.

Mi negro....you can't use the +/- stat to talk about Enrique 20 times then call it a "flawed stat" when Kawhi puts up a -21.

Can't lie to me......I'm in every single game thread....I notice these things. But I will give you credit for this. You are the only member of the Krew who will post and give Parker credit when he does have a good game. I remember talking to you 10 different times when you post things like "I'm sorry MVParker" or "Parker carrying scrubs per par". That's why I'm even willing to have a conversation with you....you will be fair at times even when it pains you to the core to admit it.

You still my rob....we just disagree on some things. No harm done...

[RD2191]

Mi negro....you can't use the +/- stat to talk about Enrique 20 times then call it a "flawed stat" when Kawhi puts up a -21.

Can't lie to me......I'm in every single game thread....I notice these things. But I will give you credit for this. You are the only member of the Krew who will post and give Parker credit when he does have a good game. I remember talking to you 10 different times when you post things like "I'm sorry MVParker" or "Parker carrying scrubs per par". That's why I'm even willing to have a conversation with you....you will be fair at times even when it pains you to the core to admit it.

You still my rob....we just disagree on some things. No harm done...

Mi llanta, I don't remember ever using the plus minus stat to on TP because as I said before his is usually always positive. I did in this thread because that's what Brazil was using. But yes, Parker deserves credit when he plays well. Hopefully he can get back to beasting Chris Paul.

[dabom]

Mi negro....you can't use the +/- stat to talk about Enrique 20 times then call it a "flawed stat" when Kawhi puts up a -21.

Can't lie to me......I'm in every single game thread....I notice these things. But I will give you credit for this. You are the only member of the Krew who will post and give Parker credit when he does have a good game. I remember talking to you 10 different times when you post things like "I'm sorry MVParker" or "Parker carrying scrubs per par". That's why I'm even willing to have a conversation with you....you will be fair at times even when it pains you to the core to admit it.

You still my rob....we just disagree on some things. No harm done...

Look got.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241895

Here I cheering for enrique to get better. He still hasn't.

This reminds me of 2013 Manu. He just didn't have it that year. You could see it a mile away. Pop being a per par again. Trying to teach the team a "lesson".

[Brazil]

I want kawhi at 20 shots every game. And 8 shots int he first quarter every game.

Antiquated player fan shhhh... Girl

[dabom]

Antiquated player fan shhhh... Girl

You mad your lover enrique ain't getting the spotlight anymore.

[FkLA]

If any of those teams you listed had a post player that helped lead them to a dominant stretch like what Kawhi did during the winning streak, I'm pretty sure they'd consider switching their offensive philosophy. Truth is the Spurs have looked dead the majority of the season aside from that streak...it's beyond idiotic to intentionally get away from what got them there.

Good to have you back for the playoffs though. Nice to see someone respond with something other than 'you're not a real fan for not supporting him'.

[Silver&Black]

Let's just leave the word complimentary out of the equation.

Would you say the offensive attack was centered around Kawhi? If he's being called the best player on the team and it's being said that because of that he deserves the bulk of the blame then the offense must've been centered around him, right?

Kawhi is considered the best player on the team because he is one of the best offensive threats on the team. And BY FAR the best defensive player on the team. Being called the "best player on the team" is not all about the offense being centered around you. There is an opposite end of the court also....

[Brazil]

You mad your lover enrique ain't getting the spotlight anymore.

Disappointed... You forgot the got

[TheGreatYacht]

Antiquated player fan shhhh... Girl

[dabom]

Disappointed... You forgot the got

That was implied got.

[RD2191]

That was implied got.

[DPG21920]

If any of those teams you listed had a post player that helped lead them to a dominant stretch like what Kawhi did during the winning streak, I'm pretty sure they'd consider switching their offensive philosophy. Truth is the Spurs have looked dead the majority of the season aside from that streak...it's beyond idiotic to intentionally get away from what got them there.

Good to have you back for the playoffs though. Nice to see someone respond with something other than 'you're not a real fan for not supporting him'.

I've been worried about and critical of TP before (he proved me wrong before) - it's a legit issue. I just don't agree he was so big of a problem this game compared to others that he should be allocated the majority of the blame. It really was crappy from most players.

Keep in mind, in that dominant stretch, teams weren't really game planning against Kawhi. You didn't see the hard doubles like we saw last night. That's what is different in doing something not only regular season compared to playoffs, but stretches vs always having the offense run through you.

I agree, Spurs could do more there, but it looks like they tried but the Clips game plan was to limit that option and Spurs couldn't adjust by moving Kawhi around the floor.

[dabom]

[DPG21920]

If any of those teams you listed had a post player that helped lead them to a dominant stretch like what Kawhi did during the winning streak, I'm pretty sure they'd consider switching their offensive philosophy. Truth is the Spurs have looked dead the majority of the season aside from that streak...it's beyond idiotic to intentionally get away from what got them there.

Good to have you back for the playoffs though. Nice to see someone respond with something other than 'you're not a real fan for not supporting him'.

Also, you are doing a bit of correlation vs causation IMO. The point of that post was to show two things: That in today's NBA, the best ball handler traditionally means they are the best player/offensive engine and the even with that, TP's usgage rate is like 50th in the NBA.

Other teams didn't go on that run because they are no where near as good. That run also coincided with Tiago coming back and balling, TP picking his game up & many guys playing well. Kawhi shined obviously, and it would be great to see more of that, but he has limitations when it comes to running offense through him like you would a traditional superstar at this point.

[Silver&Black]

dabom.....don't ever quote me again. I could not possibly care less what you have to say.

You're a scrub. Your mother was a scrub...your father was a scrub. Scrub blood flows through your veins. You think you're sitting at the table with the big dogs but you're not. You are only surviving off the scraps that Malik, apal, FkLA, and robdiaz are throwing at you. All you do is post " got" and you something think you are winning or "putting people in body bags". Nobody here gives a what you think.

You're simply a gnsf like the rest of us. Learn your place got...

[pgardn]

dabom.....don't ever quote me again. I could not possibly care less what you have to say.

You're a scrub. Your mother was a scrub...your father was a scrub. Scrub blood flows through your veins. You think you're sitting at the table with the big dogs but you're not. You are only surviving off the scraps that Malik, apal, FkLA, and robdiaz are throwing at you. All you do is post " got" and you something think you are winning or "putting people in body bags". Nobody here gives a what you think.

You're simply a gnsf like the rest of us. Learn your place got...

His place is bent over with me beatin the outta of his rear end with a paddle.
This kid is like 12 years old.

[dabom]

dabom.....don't ever quote me again. I could not possibly care less what you have to say.

You're a scrub. Your mother was a scrub...your father was a scrub. Scrub blood flows through your veins. You think you're sitting at the table with the big dogs but you're not. You are only surviving off the scraps that Malik, apal, FkLA, and robdiaz are throwing at you. All you do is post " got" and you something think you are winning or "putting people in body bags". Nobody here gives a what you think.

You're simply a gnsf like the rest of us. Learn your place got...

Superioty complex because you signed up to a website earlier than me.

I can tell I got you shook and a ton of other posters.

Don't get scared got. We just talking basketball. Wait NVM. You don't know about it.