Phoenix is losing to NOK

[SirChaz]

No way - David West, by far.

STATS (last year): 17.0 (6.2) PPG, 7.5 (4.3) RPG, 1.2 (.8) APG, .9 spg (.4), .8 (.5) bpg in 34.7 MPG. In his third year, he's become the second option behind Chris Paul and he's a generously-listed 6-9 Power Forward.

David West clearly has an argument for MIP. I wouldn't say he is the winner by far.

Differences from last year.
West: PPG +10.8 RPG +3.2 APG +0.4 BPG +0.56 FG% +.080
Diaw: PPG +8.1 RPG +4.3 APG +3.6 BPG +0.83 FG% +.093

Diaw is a 6'8" PG/SF playing PF/center.

[JMarkJohns]

No way - David West, by far.

STATS (last year): 17.0 (6.2) PPG, 7.5 (4.3) RPG, 1.2 (.8) APG, .9 spg (.4), .8 (.5) bpg in 34.7 MPG. In his third year, he's become the second option behind Chris Paul and he's a generously-listed 6-9 Power Forward.

Are you saying David West at a generously listed 6-9 and 240 pounds playing power forward is more impressive than the 6-8, 215 pound Diaw playing both the power forward and center position?

That's rediculously stupid.

Chaz gave you the improved stats...

West is having a great season, but doing that as a second option isn't near as impressive as doing what Diaw's doing as a fourth option.

West: 34.7 mpg- 17.0 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 1.2 apg, 0.9 spg, 0.8 bpg, 51% FG
Diaw: 34.4 mpg- 12.9 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 0.8 spg, 1.1 bpg, 52% FG

Remember that West takes 4 more shots a game. At that clip, Diaw would be a runaway winner.

[JMarkJohns]

Here's what Kerr says on the matter...

If Phoenix Suns forward Boris Diaw didn't already have the league's Most Improved Award locked up, he does now.

His play the past couple of weeks has been amazingly efficient.

In his last six games, Diaw is averaging 22.5 points, 9.2 rebounds and 6.8 assists and, perhaps most impressively, has committed just 12 turnovers. Also, during Phoenix's 11-game win streak, the 2003 first-round pick from France recorded the first two triple-doubles of his career.

His ability to defend centers at one end has given him the ultimate mismatch at the other: no big man can guard the 6-foot-8, 215-pound Diaw. His jump shot has improved, but it is his passing ability that has made him so good.

Between Steve Nash and Diaw, the Suns have two players who can break down a defense late in the shot clock and create good looks for teammates. Not bad for a guy who barely got off the bench in Atlanta.

[mavsfan1000]

Diaw almost by himself won that game against the mavs. He was creating havic to the mavs centers and on the switch he was able to post up Jason Terry as well. He is also improving his jumper and starting to nail them.

[Xylus]

At the beginning of the year, Bill Walton predicted that Diaw will be a future All-Star, and most everyone (myself included) thought he was being a little ridiculous. Looking at his numbers over the last six games--22.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 6.8 apg--it's hard not to believe him. Diaw's confidence has shot through the roof.

Thank you, Atlanta, for keeping this guy a well-kept secret.

[Darrin]

What kind of logic is this? That West faces less pressure by defenses as the 2nd option that Diaw as the 4th? West has been amazingly consistent. The last time David West scored in single digits was December 16th. In January, his team's best month (10-5), he averaged 18.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.1 bpg - his best month. The Hornets won 18 games last season.

West leads the Hornets in both Points Per Game (18% of the total points) and Rebounds (18% of the total rebounds). Chris Paul is amazing, but he's not leading the Hornets to the playoffs by himself.

[JMarkJohns]

It's easier to put up better scoring when you're the first or second option, then the fourth. That's the point. You said, "By far" and I disputed that. How is four more points per game on four more attempts per game worthy of a "by far"?

At the current clip, if Diaw wanted to, he could have averaged 17 points per as well.

They are even across the board, except for West's PPG and Diaw's APG.

I guess it'll be whichever stat means more. Another out of nowhere 17 per game scorer (not that uncommon, by the way) or an out of nowhere 14-7-6 wing who literally has played every position on the floor for the Suns.

[Darrin]

It's easier to put up better scoring when you're the first or second option, then the fourth. That's the point. You said, "By far" and I disputed that. How is four more points per game on four more attempts per game worthy of a "by far"?

At the current clip, if Diaw wanted to, he could have averaged 17 points per as well.

They are even across the board, except for West's PPG and Diaw's APG.

I guess it'll be whichever stat means more. Another out of nowhere 17 per game scorer (not that uncommon, by the way) or an out of nowhere 14-7-6 wing who literally has played every position on the floor for the Suns.

You're going to tell me you knew David West could be the leading scorer on a playoff team before this season? He didn't 'come out of nowhere?' Diaw was drafted 21st overall, David West 18th overall in the same draft. They both had the same expectations coming into the league, although Atlanta was talking about this kid a lot in his rookie season.

If we were comparing Ricky Davis in Cleveland vs. Boris Diaw, I'd buy the argument that "it's easier to put up numbers." West sees more defensive attention and shoots a slightly higher percentage (.514, 14th best in the league) than Diaw. That's impressive.

[JMarkJohns]

I looked back and West shoots .516, Diaw shoots .515.

Are you really trying to say that David West, a career power forward, is having a more impressive season at the fower forward position than Diaw, a career wing, is having at the small forward, power forward and center positions?

He's not doing anything that wasn't expected out of him. He became a starter this year, whereas in years before he came off the bench. Before, he was stuck behind PJ Brown and Jamaal Magloire. Only difference now is that with starters role, he's getting more shots and more minutes to take said shots.

Basically, the only thing West has on Diaw is scoring and if Diaw had been the second option on offense for the Suns all season, then he wouldn't even have that.

I'm not saying that West isn't a worthy candidate, or even unlikely to win. I'm saying that your "by far" statement is out of left field and ignorant of the facts. Every argument you make for West, can be made for Diaw, so how does that make it West "by far"?

Both players improved from opportunity. That's it. These weren't career starters who averaged 30 minutes over the past three years, then all of a sudden, each got it and started putting up near All-Star numbers. They were both bench players. Each has now made the most of their role and minutes.

Recently, Diaw has been running laps around West and doing so as a 6-8, 214 pound wing going up against 6-10, 240 and 7-0, 250 pounders on a night-in, night-out basis.

If you're saying you're more impressed with West because to you it's more surprising, then you must not have watched him, when he did play. He was a very good contributer. Double his minutes last year and he's averages 13 points and 8 rebounds. Whenever he got the minutes, he did well. In the game of 24 minutes or more, he averaged 11 points and 7 rebounds.

Seriously, if he came from out of nowhere to you, you must not have been following him. To those who watched, his 17 and 7 in 34 minutes per isn't that much of a surprise.

Diaw never came close to that.

In the games he played 24 minutes or more, Diaw averaged 7 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists per game.

West was injured much of the year and he still was the better player of the two.

Diaw has been more of a surprise and has equal, if not better numbers overall.

Again, West may very well win and if he does, then he'll be worthy, but not by far. Ignorance, thankfully, doesn't get many votes.

[Darrin]

We've had this discussion over two words? So if I go back and edit out "by far" will that delete the last page of posts?

David West has gotten little-to-no publicity for Most Improved Player. I have heard Boris Diaw's name and that award together probably every time the Suns have played on national television.

My over-exhuberance was compensation for the fact that this guy has been just as impressive, but isn't on national television every week. Steve Nash has gotten MVP, and Mike D'Antoni Coach of the Year already. People want to give them those awards again, and Diaw for Most Improved, and Shawn Marion is being mentioned for Defensive Player of the Year. That's a lot of hardware for a team that's made it to the Conference Finals with a mere outside chance of winning the Conference this season.

Dallas and Sacramento didn't get this kind of respect. People are blinded by the offensive numbers; they simply like watching them.

West has carved out his role. The Hornets dealt Magloire, in part, because of how West was playing early on. He's forced PJ Brown to a reduced role, something he didn't do last season. He's blossomed, and why Diaw, who was traded for an 60-million dollar a year player - an integral part of the Suns' success the previous seasons - has "come out of nowhere" is kind of like saying Jermaine O'Neal or Tracy McGrady came out of nowhere. West has fought his way into the rotation with the same team, which is harder to do than show your potential in a new role when you have a fresh pair of eyes viewing you.

[rm13]

He's blossomed, and why Diaw, who was traded for an 60-million dollar a year player - an integral part of the Suns' success the previous seasons - has "come out of nowhere" is kind of like saying Jermaine O'Neal or Tracy McGrady came out of nowhere.

Diaw was a throw-in in that deal. The Suns also got two first round picks and it was a trade they were forced to do. Diaw was not some exciting T-mac prospect they were getting-not even close. I am pretty sure the Hawks managment thought very little of him and didnt really care about adding him into the deal. The suns system and Nash has helped Diaw get a lot of confidence. If you look at what Diaw has done in the last two weeks or so-its so insane. I dont know how anyone can think anyone else could be MIP.

[Darrin]

Diaw was a throw-in in that deal. The Suns also got two first round picks and it was a trade they were forced to do. Diaw was not some exciting T-mac prospect they were getting-not even close. I am pretty sure the Hawks managment thought very little of him and didnt really care about adding him into the deal. The suns system and Nash has helped Diaw get a lot of confidence. If you look at what Diaw has done in the last two weeks or so-its so insane. I dont know how anyone can think anyone else could be MIP.

That's why it took two months to complete the trade because they had to remove the managing partner of the new Atlanta Hawks ownership because he wouldn't agree to complete the deal.

[rm13]

That's why it took two months to complete the trade because they had to remove the managing partner of the new Atlanta Hawks ownership because he wouldn't agree to complete the deal.

Yeah because that guy who got kicked out-steve whatever didn't think giving up that much plus paying JJ all that money was worth it...NOBODY agreed with him and thought he was just a cheap bas -so they booted him. The guy wasn't angry because Diaw was going to be in the deal.

[Darrin]

Yeah because that guy who got kicked out-steve whatever didn't think giving up that much plus paying JJ all that money was worth it...NOBODY agreed with him and thought he was just a cheap bas -so they booted him. The guy wasn't angry because Diaw was going to be in the deal.

That's not what I read. The guy was concerned about all the money, but he thought Diaw as an up-and-coming player and the two draft picks clinched the deal as excessive. He stuck to his guns, not because of the financial end, but because he believed the Hawks were giving up too many assets.

[rm13]

That's not what I read. The guy was concerned about all the money, but he thought Diaw as an up-and-coming player and the two draft picks clinched the deal as excessive. He stuck to his guns, not because of the financial end, but because he believed the Hawks were giving up too many assets.

Yeah exactly-that is what I was trying to say. But it wasnt in particular Diaw, it was the whole thing together. The point is is he obvs saw something in Diaw, but not in the same way as people saw things in T-mac and JO. And nobody else on the Hawks saw it.