I've covered all this before. Absolute numbers distort relative impact. How about we organize the top 5 assist list by assists per game:He ranks like Top 5 in Assists and Top 10 in Points in the post season, too lazy to look up the leaderboards. Everyone on the big 3 has had their set of horrible series, happens
It also applies to some other dude looking for a max from the spurs this offseason, tbh
12.3 - Magic
10.1 - Stockon
8.8 - Nash
8.0 - Kidd
5.2 - Parker
Parker's not in the same tier as those guy as a playmaker.
You brought up the top 10 points list. Lets look at the playoff efficiency(true shooting percentage) of all the players on that list(up to Tony) and see how Parker stacks up:
.568 - Jordan
.571 - Kareem
.541 - Kobe
.565 - Shaq
.550 - Duncan
.526 - Malone
.577 - Lebron
.541 - Jerry West
.498 - Havlicek
.551 - Bird
.515 - Parker
Everybody on that list has scored a lot of points in the playoffs on good efficiency. Except for the three bolded players. These three stand out as being considerably less efficient than the others. Malone is a reputed choke artist in the playoffs. His low efficiency reflects that. Parker's another one. Just more proof that these two are the biggest choke artists in post-season history.
How about we compare Parker's .515 TS% to other great PGs past and present:
.595 - Magic
.568 - Stockton
.583 - Nash
.578 - Billups
.577 - Paul
.515 - Parker
Poor Tony isn't even close. Then again, TP never was an elite point guard.
That choking, one-dimensional got saw a chance at personal glory when he saw Boobie lined up opposite of him and he took a FMVP that rightfully belonged to Timmy. That award has fooled millions of re s into thinking he was some kind of playoff warrior and a member of a 'Big 3'. He's a ing fraud tbh.
I don't get why people blame Leonard for his missed FT in Game 6? For a player as young and inexperienced as he was at the point, it was clutch as to split there. I'm all for Leonard being in the Spurfan doghouse at the moment for getting outplayed by Matt Barnes, but criticizing that missed FT doesn't make sense.
Are you saying those PG's would still have those numbers if they went through a 4 down post Duncan & and a team ball movement type of system?I've covered all this before. Absolute numbers distort relative impact. How about we organize the top 5 assist list by assists per game:
12.3 - Magic
10.1 - Stockon
8.8 - Nash
8.0 - Kidd
5.2 - Parker
Damn you really buried Parker there for not being in the class of Jordan, Kareem, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, West, and BirdYou brought up the top 10 points list. Lets look at the playoff efficiency(true shooting percentage) of all the players on that list(up to Tony) and see how Parker stacks up:
.568 - Jordan
.571 - Kareem
.541 - Kobe
.565 - Shaq
.550 - Duncan
.526 - Malone
.577 - Lebron
.541 - Jerry West
.498 - Havlicek
.551 - Bird
.515 - Parker
Everybody on that list has scored a lot of points in the playoffs on good efficiency. Except for the three bolded players. These three stand out as being considerably less efficient than the others. Malone is a reputed choke artist in the playoffs. His low efficiency reflects that. Parker's another one. Just more proof that these two are the biggest choke artists in post-season history.
All those PG's are pure shooters except for Magic, Parker isn't. This is a factHow about we compare Parker's .515 TS% to other great PGs past and present:
.595 - Magic
.568 - Stockton
.583 - Nash
.578 - Billups
.577 - Paul
.515 - Parker
Poor Tony isn't even close. Then again, TP never was an elite point guard.
Evita ting on Enrique
Pork Crackles took mediocrity to a whole new level.
He cannot be satisfied until he wastes Duncan's remaining time
YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Maybe this last game contributed to that mark.
You've pretty much admitted that Parker's a one-dimensional system point guard with this statement. And yeah, bringing in players with actual talent(and court vision) will improve any team. You think the Hawks would rather have Jeff Teague over someone like Paul or Nash? What a ty, ty argument.
You made the comparison, not me, when bringing up TP being in the top 10 playoff scorers list. Context is important. All the great players on that list score efficiently. The choke artists(Malone/Parker) are the least efficient in that group. Inefficient players tend to lose you playoff games with their chucking(as we've seen many times with TP)Damn you really buried Parker there for not being in the class of Jordan, Kareem, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Lebron, West, and Bird
Shooting is a skill. As is drawing free throws. Ignoring TS% because your favorite player is poor at both is re ed.
I dont see Terny Porker on that list
its ok guys, only 3 years left
Impressive for Manu. Pretty much all the elite wing players in NBA history there. That list is missing Wade though. Pretty sure he's met all the requirements.
Great thread tbh
Nothing but facts
Of course his TS% is when he can't hit 3's and free throws efficientlyHe's great as long as you ignore the things he's bad at!
With these arguments I don't know if TheGreatYacht is trying to defend or ting on Tony, tbh.Of course his TS% is when he can't hit 3's and free throws efficiently
Addressing the "Big 3" myth:
Spurs won three les in five years from 2003-2007. Here's the playoff stats for all the Spurs rotation players in that time period:
Tim and Manu are the only two players with:
20+ PER
6+ BPM
10+ win shares
.200+ WS/48(DRob also qualifies for this but he only played in 2003)
These two guys were dominant - by far the two best players on the team. They were pretty much the Shaq/Kobe of the Spurs. Everybody else was a role player. No idea where the big three nonsense came from. Duncan and Manu were a Big Two back then.
Tony was tolerable until this year. He shouldn't have been out there past 20 minutes a night. A hobble Chris Paul was schooling Parker. That is why I am not surprise the Spurs lost. I guarantee, if Tony was limit to 15-20 minutes max like Manu, the Spurs would have won this series.
But its spilled milk at this point. Hopefully Kawhi get even better in the offseason and maybe the Spurs can land LA to shoulder more of the Offensive load due to Parker's regression and continue regression.
Pretty much what we already know, that Manu is a better player than Tony in almost every measurable way.Addressing the "Big 3" myth:
Spurs won three les in five years from 2003-2007. Here's the playoff stats for all the Spurs rotation players in that time period:
Tim and Manu are the only two players with:
20+ PER
6+ BPM
10+ win shares
.200+ WS/48(DRob also qualifies for this but he only played in 2003)
These two guys were dominant - by far the two best players on the team. They were pretty much the Shaq/Kobe of the Spurs. Everybody else was a role player. No idea where the big three nonsense came from. Duncan and Manu were a Big Two back then.
The same as Tony being the younger player and with more stamina that allowed Tim and Manu to somehow cruise during the regular season so the could shine in the PO.
Manu and Tim were the real starts, Tony has always been a workhorse disguised as the "head of the snake" so that idiotic coaches concentrate their defenses on him.
player with 3750 pts and 1000 ass Bird Parker and Lebron
Magic had 3701 pts
Manu 2836 and 747 ass
maybe it's the big problem for his fans only 15.2 pts/game Tony 18.6 better than Pippen or David Robinson but Tony is awfull
Malone may have choked in the NBA finals, but he was a beast in the Western Conference. I hated him, but as a Spur fan that saw Utah dominate us in the 90s, I respected him. I'd also say that it's silly to call Tony a playoff choker, I don't think he is. He played horrible on this year's run, like 3/4 of the team, but I don't think it was choking. He was injured and looked bad and he was playing Paul, who was healthy and playing his best ball in years.
Don't kid yourself, Malone was a choke artist in the West as well. Stockton routinely bailed his ass out. Even with Stockton, they still lost in the first round 7 times, including getting swept by a 43-win Warriors team in 1989. IIRC, in one of those games, Malone went off for 30+ points in the first three quarters and promptly went scoreless in the 4th. Then there was the '94 playoffs, where Malone nearly gagged a 3-0 lead to the Nuggets, then was so shook against Houston that Utah's owner actually screamed at Sloan from the stands to bench him during one of the games. And who could forget his choke at the free throw line against the Sonics in '96, where he was literally rattled by the crowd chanting "5, 4, 3, 2, 1" at him? Karl was a bum, plain and simple... the Fivehead of the NBA.
I'm no Malone fan, but he was pretty good in the Western Conference. He made the finals twice and he was the team's leading scorer. Sure Stockton was a big part of the success, but you can't deny Malone had some good runs in the playoffs, both as a scorer and as a defender/rebounder/enforcer. I guess you can, but it would be forgetting a lot of his success in the process. Now he did suck it up against the Bulls in the finals both times. No question he choked in the finals, but I remember him pretty much owning the Spurs in the playoffs.
He actually missed a big one in OT. He made 1-2 that gave the Spurs a 100-97 lead.
The Spurs were down a point when Manu had the ball stripped by Ray Allen in the closing seconds. Otherwise, the game is tied
Last edited by 21209; 05-05-2015 at 06:07 PM.
Porker is not a great player, never has been one or half, if someone cant see that a shrink may be required.
TP's best attribute was constantly attacking the defense. He was the 1-man fastbreak. If he can't do that due to injuries or good defenders his value drops significantly.
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