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Umm, where is Phoenix without him? Up the creek without a paddle.
Am I the only one that doesn't think he belongs in the very elite group, a handful really, that have won back-to-back MVP's?
It is ridiculous. Yes, has had a great season. But he is fricking a million games behind 3 other teams in the NBA.
Is he the best man on the best team? Best man maybe (there might be two better players on his own team!!), best team no.
Does he warp the game on BOTH sides of the court? Maybe. He makes it easy to score for his opponents too.
Is he the best player in the game? no. No one in their right mind would argue this. Look at Kobe. Look at Garnett. Look at Billups(!). Look at Dirk. Look at Darko (jk).
Does he make his teammates better? Yes. Absolutely. But so does their system, not to mention that he also has some darn good players there already.
Does he make his teammates better than guys like Duncan? Tim's championships on 2 vastly different squads (3 really) indicate that Tim makes his teammates pretty damned good himself. His unprecedented regular season team record in his tenure on an ever-rotating cast of players supports the claim that Tim Duncan has makes his teammates better in a way only a few other people in NBA history have been able. Has Nash earned THAT kind of respect? No.
So what other criteria is there? Well, he is fun to watch. I guess that wins MVP's nowadays. If only Rafer Alston got free reign.
Umm, where is Phoenix without him? Up the creek without a paddle.
Exactly, Nash has as much a chance to win it as anybody. This year is wide open and I hope Nash wins it again, 'cause he plays the game the right way. If not Nash, Kobe or Billups. But noone else. Don't come with that Lebron,Wade hype bull . them.
Team without Nowitzki is worse..
I don't know if i agree with this, I guess nash might be easier to replace but the suns are very mediocre team without nash.
Not since Amare left....
The team improved as a whole and people started to step up...
Nash is not THAT big part of the picture...
Dirk deserves it alot more, the Mavs depend on his jumper EVERY game, and they know they don't do well when he's not in the lineup....
If Nash were to be hurt RIGHT NOW, with Amare, Marion, Bell, and Diaw... I think they can still win some games...
Dallas without Dirk is not good news at all..
You think? How about you look it up! With a healthy Amare, Marion, Johnson, Richardson and Jackson, the Suns were 2-6 without Nash. This year, 0-1.
That's 2-for-9.
That's not very good at all.
I'm not going to argue that Dirk isn't as valuable. He probably is. But more valuable? The Suns would do fine without Nash? Come on
He deserved the MVP last season, just as Shaq did. It is possible to have more than one deserving player. Last season Nash got the award largely because of the turnaround Phoenix had.
This year, he's more deserving of the award individually and as a team. How can a player having better year (than that when he was MVP) on a team that has less talent (than that when he was MVP) and is still nearly as good not be deserving?
If Wade, Kobe or Dirk wins, I'm fine with it, but to say he's not deserving is insane.
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 03-24-2006 at 11:39 PM.
Kobe's FG% has cooled off a bit, but I think the award is still his to lose. Tough call on whether Nash or Dirk should take it if the Lakers flame out though. I'm leaning a little more towards Nash on that one, but Dirk looks amazing this season.
You think? How about you look it up! With a healthy Amare, Marion, Johnson, Richardson and Jackson, the Suns were 2-6 without Nash. This year, 0-1.
That's 2-for-9.
That's not very good at all.
I'm not going to argue that Dirk isn't as valuable. He probably is. But more valuable? The Suns would do fine without Nash? Come on
He deserved the MVP last season, just as Shaq did. It is possible to have more than one deserving player. Last season Nash got the award largely because of the turnaround Phoenix had.
This year, he's not deserving of the award individually and as a team. How can a player having better year (than that when he was MVP) on a team that has less talent (than that when he was MVP) and is still nearly as good not be deserving?
If Wade, Kobe or Dirk wins, I'm fine with it, but to say he's not deserving is insane.
I'm not saying he's more deserving, but you can't picture a Dallas team winning games without Dirk...
I can see the PHX Suns winning games without Nash this season excluding the fact that they didn't win much without him last year..
They didn't have Diaw, or Bell last season, and Amare wants to play more than ever.
I just think it wouldn't be fair for the rest to continue thinking the team would be bad without him. We can't keep that thought in our head if it happened one season.
Kobe shouldn't even be in the top 5 for MVP Candidates...
I just think he should have atleast 10 games over .500 to get it.
The guy's just doing what he's always done, the only difference is Jackson this season..
Because they have absolutely no one that resembles a decent point guard after Nash, and their team is so offense-oriented, they are an absolute mess without him.
But so are almost all teams with Superstar type players. When the Star player is gone, the team sucks. When the star player is there, the team is decent.
So the whole they suck without Nash argument is a bit overplayed.
Firstly, the team isn't having a better year. Their record will be worse by year's end.
As far as talent is concerned, some would argue that they have MORE talent this year - with the addition of a break-out Diaw, Raja Bell, and Kurt Thomas.
I would disagree that Nash was deserving of the MVP last year. So I don't buy your argument that he automatically deserves it this year as a result of having an on-par season as last year.
Last year, he was a popular pick for a lot of different reasons that don't apply this year.
1) He was the leader (and probably not the best player!) on the team with the best record in the NBA. Not the cast this year.
2) The team got off to a great start. They were on pace for 70 wins, and he basically won the award in the first 35 games. It was his to lose after that. Not the case this year.
3) He has an irrepressible offensive repertoire that was a lot of fun to watch. Still the case, but the playoffs showed that you need to make stops too. Nash doesn't do this.
4) Everyone thought that he was the reason why Amare broke out. And they were wrong. Amare is a beast without Nash. He is a beast period. It was just one more year in his progression, and he became a lot scarier looking because the team was actually winning.
That's it. That's all. It was cute, but it should be over, as he is not in any in the same league as
a) any previous MVP within the last 25 years - MJ, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Malone.
b) any back-to-back MVP ever - Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Duncan.
All of these guys won multiple les. They all dominated the league. What about Nash? Isn't this heresy?!?!?
Nash is a great player and he deserved his MVP award last season but this year Kobe's been unbelievable and I'm pretty sure he'll get it unless the Lakers fail to make the playoffs.He's not one of my favourite players by any means but I agree that he deserves it.Suns are 2-9 without Nash. What's the lakers recent record without Kobe? Or what would it be like?
Dirk has done big things this year so obviously he'll be seriously considered as well especially if Dallas get the #1 spot, which I doubt.
As for Billups I think he doesn't stand a chance because Detroit have so many great players that Billups is only arguably the best of them.I think Rip deserves more recognition than he gets.
best player on best team has always gotten the NOD ........but becoz spurs or detroit end up with best records "THEY" have to deviate from the "NORM"
Damn "THEM"
1. Kobe
2. Nash
3. LeBron
4. Dirk
5. D-Wade
Kobe is the MVP this year. He just is. And, I hate the Lakers.
nash couldnt play d if it was an elimation game in the WCF and steve kerr was reigning from upon
he would probably run away from kerr as if he were the boogedy man
Although I did rate Nash as #1 candidate on ESPN, I have to agree. Nash is extremely gifted offensively. Unfortunately, there are 2 sides of the ball.
Nash CANT play defense.
Kobe can.
Kobe has earned some recognition in the league. He has consistently been one of the most complete players, and he has won 3 rings. Kobe > Nash. And I hate the Lakers too.
Do you even watch mavs games? Dirk definitely is a MVP with Nash as the second choice. It would be a crime if Nash gets it again. He is getting tons of help this year. Also Barbosa could win a lot of games for the suns without Nash. Eddie House as a backup is enough to do that.
I would rather see long dong. .I mean Kobe win it.
I actually don't think Kobe is going to win it. His rep is still has a ball hog and his team is too low in the rankings for him to get it. If he wins it, then what about guys like AI, Paul Pierce, etc?
Nash is unbelievable. Last year, people were saying Amare makes Nash appear better then he is. This year, without Amare, now people are saying guys like Marion and Diaw, make it easier for Nash. But, it's the other way around. Just look at the Spurs win against the Suns without Nash playing...how easily the Spurs beat them. Then watch the game with Nash...Spurs struggled a lot more.
Yes, Nash doesn't play defense, but you know what? He plays in a system/team where he doesn't really need to. His passing skills and ability to make guys liek Raja Bell and Boris Diaw look like MVP candidates offsets his poor defense, IMO. No way would the Suns win that second seed if they didn't have Nash.
My choice:
1) Nash
2) Dirk--He's just as importatant to the Mavs success this season as Nash. Although, I don't think he makes his team-mates better like Nash or Duncan.
3) Kobe--Without him, Lakers would be competeing with the Bobcats for the worst record in the league.
4) Brand--People still aren't taking the Clippers seriously...how about the fact that they are now in the playoffs???!
5) Billups/Wade/Lebron--great players, but I don't think any of them will really win it.
- - - NOTE: This is a LONG reply...
You're making my argument for me. It's because he's a superstar with no near-equal that makes him so valuable. To try and use this as an argument against Nash is very odd.
What? You mean like when a team loses their 6-10, 250, top-10 overall post player? He's gone and Nash has kept the team as competative as a short, wing-oriented team possibly can be.But so are almost all teams with Superstar type players. When the Star player is gone, the team sucks. When the star player is there, the team is decent.
So the whole they suck without Nash argument is a bit overplayed.
You can't possibly justify your final statement. They are 2-7 the past two season without Nash. Nash can't be punished because he didn't miss longer to really pound home his value, but his absense can be blamed for many problems the Suns have. When he's out of the game, the Suns offense isn't nearly as effective. When he's not playing in a game, the Suns generally lose.
Yes, yes, but if you recall, the Suns were a mere .500 team against division leaders last season. This year? A mere .500. That's what I'm basing this on. This team has had so many injuries other than Amare that at times, they didn't have a bench or frontcourt. Those are bound to add up to a loss here and there. Last season, the Suns had near-perfect health throughout until JJ's injury in the second round.Firstly, the team isn't having a better year. Their record will be worse by year's end.
Let's just say that last year's team had three All-Stars (Nash, Amare, Marion), a wing capable of 20 points, 6 rebounds and 6 assists any given game (JJ), a 3-point champion (Richardson), a great veteran off the bench (Jackson) and a quality big for defense and rebounding (Hunter).As far as talent is concerned, some would argue that they have MORE talent this year - with the addition of a break-out Diaw, Raja Bell, and Kurt Thomas.
This year's team has but two All-Stars (one fewer), a wing capable of 20-6-6 any given game, but because of injuries, has missed Barbosa for half the season, Jones, for roughly a third, Thomas for a third, Grant for two-thirds and while Bell has been a great addition, he doesn't equal Richardson and Jackson.
With everybody healthy, then yes, this team has more talent, but you can't just look at the names and say they are more talented when this year's team is missing a top-10 player and four or five quality role players for 20+ games throughout the year.
He won for all that and for the fact that his addition certainly helped the Suns get off to the great start. Maybe he wasn't the only reason, but who is? Shaq had Wade. Duncan had Ginobili and Parker. After Duncan and Shaq, the MVP race wasn't very close. Maybe James, but his team missed the playoffs. Iverson, close to the same as James.I would disagree that Nash was deserving of the MVP last year. So I don't buy your argument that he automatically deserves it this year as a result of having an on-par season as last year.
Last year, he was a popular pick for a lot of different reasons that don't apply this year.
1) He was the leader (and probably not the best player!) on the team with the best record in the NBA. Not the cast this year.
2) The team got off to a great start. They were on pace for 70 wins, and he basically won the award in the first 35 games. It was his to lose after that. Not the case this year.
3) He has an irrepressible offensive repertoire that was a lot of fun to watch. Still the case, but the playoffs showed that you need to make stops too. Nash doesn't do this.
4) Everyone thought that he was the reason why Amare broke out. And they were wrong. Amare is a beast without Nash. He is a beast period. It was just one more year in his progression, and he became a lot scarier looking because the team was actually winning.
That's it. That's all.
While several reason contributed to the 2003-04 season's record, that team still had Johnson, Marion and Amare for 50 games. In them they were well below .500. With Nash, they exploded. You can't just write that off as coincidense. You can't. His style of play perfectly complimented them and maximized those skills to the extent that they weren't just talents any longer, but great players. Take him off and that same core was 2-6.
Nash was largely responsible for the Suns style of play, which aided certain Suns to career years, which directly led to the Suns fast start. Take Nash out of that equation and it doesn't matter the names. Not only did they go 2-6 last season, but the PPG dropped from 110 with Nash, to 85 without.
Are you still arguing that Nash wasn't largely responsible? Please.... if you do, it's just plain bone-headed ignorance or bias. Without Nash, that team was mediocre in every facet of the game. With him, they advanced to the Western Conference Finals.
[quote]It was cute, but it should be over, as he is not in any in the same league as
a) any previous MVP within the last 25 years - MJ, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Robinson, Malone.[quote]
So now to be an MVP you must pass some "All-time great" type of litmus test? That's so freakin' rediculous you should be laughed out of this thread.
Maybe Nash's career wasn't in their league, but the award isn't for career. It's for that one season. If having the best year of your career while being the guiding force on a Western Conference Championship team isn't good enough to qualify, then Robinson sure as better hand his over. Same with Garnett. And you could even argue that if the litmus test is All-Time greats who've led their teams to les, then goodbye Barkley, goodbye Malone, good bye Iverson.
The bolded line belongs nowhere near an MVP debate as the award is a regular season acknowledgement. They have a Finals MVP to recognize the most valuable champion. So shut the eff up already.b) any back-to-back MVP ever - Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, Jordan, and Duncan.
All of these guys won multiple les. They all dominated the league. What about Nash? Isn't this heresy?!?!?
Nash is averaging 20 points, 11 assists on great shooting while guiding an undersized team to a top-4 record in the League. No one can stop him from doing so. You make him a scorer, he beats you (see Mavs series). You make him pass, he beats you (see everything else). If that's not domination, then you have a warped sense of the word.
As for comparing Nash to those names above, no one is. None but you, anyways. Are you going to say that San Antonio maybe doesn't deserve their three les because they weren't won as dominantly as the Lakers three? , the Lakers swept the Nets, the Spurs merely beat them in six. That since the Spurs didn't dominate, they aren't worthy to be called Champions because they don't measure up to what's been done int he past?
Seriously. Are you so blinded by your bias that you can't see how absurd that is?
That was an example... the following is literally what you are arguing, only the names have been changed.
That Duncan isn't as dominant as Shaq, but Shaq only has one MVP award while Duncan has two?
Really... is this what you are trying to use to devalue Nash's seasons?
Enough already.
Nash is the MVP.
A lot of Dirk haters on here. Dirk's team is doing better than Nash's team so Dirk is the MVP. Nash has Marion.
Dirk is certainly worthy. No doubt. If he wins, he wins. Just hope that the MVP police don't call taint since Dirk isn't Larry Bird.
Dirk edged his way into the top spot with me after his 51 points against GS.
2.Kobe
3.Nash
The rest of the best; Wade, Brand, Billups, Lebron
Any of the top 3 works for me.
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