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"Marjanovic at 7'3 290lbs runs like the court like a deer"
Best joke of 2015!
KL2 is destroying mid so far...its not even a debate at this point.
Mid has also admitted and conceded that todays players are superior in skillls so not sure why these idiots are celebrating.
KL2 doing work
"Marjanovic at 7'3 290lbs runs like the court like a deer"
Best joke of 2015!
How is KL2 destroying Mid?
Cuz better nutrition and training?
Damn it.
KL2 was so convincing I had hope that JJ Watt could become the worlds strongest guard.
A total ommision of the history of rule changes as well, and the sometimes unpredictable outcomes they lead to.
My contention is how you and KL overstate that fact and spin it as if players 30 years ago couldn't dribble/finish with their off hands. You two also re edly overstate the "jump" in athleticism, again spinning it as if players 30 years ago couldn't even dunk or get their shots off against today's highly evolved athletic superheroes. Bird had a 28" vertical. Kawhi has a 32" vertical.
I would estimate that 80's players are about 10% worse generally speaking. In a vacuum, players of the 80's would probably see a 10% dip in production against modern compe ion and today's players transported to that era would see a 10% boost. Once we get into the 90's, it's a wash. Players today are no more athletic and not even much more skillful than then.
Now if you want to talk about the evolution of systems, schemes, game planning, player evaluation/tracking, film study, statistical advancements, etc, then yeah, we've seen a major evolution. 80's ball was highly improvisational and spontaneous, built around rough gameplans, kind of like soccer, while 90's ball was about trying to impose the will of your stars through isolation and then gritting it up on the defensive end. Teams today are much, much better (aside from obvious examples, like the Lakers and Sixers) since you have a more defined structure on both ends of the ball for players to work with. I'd say teams today are 20-30% better than teams from the 80's (doesn't sound like much, but that translates into an average 20-30 point margin of victory). The '86 Celtics are probably getting swept by the Warriors or the 2014 Spurs in a vacuum (under any rule set). But give that roster a year or two to develop a coherent system and gameplanning philosophy, give them all the film, stat, etc tools, and it's a different story. Not sure if they win a series (probably not). But they would be compe ive.
I don't have any problem with championing today's game and players as better, just not to the hyperbolic degree you two do at it, which is probably out of trolling, but part of me thinks you really believe Gerald Green would be an all-time great in the 80's.
It really shouldn't be this easy to troll white people. 10 pages later, apparently saying something about Larry Bird is our equivalent of hearing n*gger shouted at us.
agree with much of your post. but posting verticals of Bird and Kiwi makes little sense. D'russell a has better measured vert than both but plays below the rim most of the time. Only time you see his vert is when he rebounds. In addition the the 4 inches in vert over Bird, Kiwi has hands like Worthy or dr.J plus a crazy wingspan. Again if locked 1 on 1 no screens I truly believe Bird would have trouble getting off his shot against Kiwi. But is basketball played 1 on 1? No. With screens a good system and willing role players Im sure Bird could out up MVP numbers in today's NBA on Kiwi.. My only point is that guys like Kiwi could defend him much better than he could do them And Kiwi isnt even the best SF, Lebron is. So overall No to the Op's point he is not overrated to the degree stated. But if we put bird with Lebron, Kiwi and Durant today you could make a case that you could take any of those 3 over Bird depending on what you value most and Bird is the all time GOAT SF, pre-Lebron ...In the 80's it was no doubt Bird ...then everyone else at SF. Nique was great but a couple notches below. Same for Worthy.And both were more athletic than Bird.he was the best of his era no doubts about that ...but to say he could handle those 3? Not sure about that.
My contention is how you and KL overstate that fact and spin it as if players 30 years ago couldn't dribble/finish with their off hands. You two also re edly overstate the "jump" in athleticism, again spinning it as if players 30 years ago couldn't even dunk or get their shots off against today's highly evolved athletic superheroes. Bird had a 28" vertical. Kawhi has a 32" vertical.
I would estimate that 80's players are about 10% worse generally speaking. In a vacuum, players of the 80's would probably see a 10% dip in production against modern compe ion and today's players transported to that era would see a 10% boost. Once we get into the 90's, it's a wash. Players today are no more athletic and not even much more skillful than then.
Now if you want to talk about the evolution of systems, schemes, game planning, player evaluation/tracking, film study, statistical advancements, etc, then yeah, we've seen a major evolution. 80's ball was highly improvisational and spontaneous, built around rough gameplans, kind of like soccer, while 90's ball was about trying to impose the will of your stars through isolation and then gritting it up on the defensive end. Teams today are much, much better (aside from obvious examples, like the Lakers and Sixers) since you have a more defined structure on both ends of the ball for players to work with. I'd say teams today are 20-30% better than teams from the 80's (doesn't sound like much, but that translates into an average 20-30 point margin of victory). The '86 Celtics are probably getting swept by the Warriors or the 2014 Spurs in a vacuum (under any rule set). But give that roster a year or two to develop a coherent system and gameplanning philosophy, give them all the film, stat, etc tools, and it's a different story. Not sure if they win a series (probably not). But they would be compe ive.
I don't have any problem with championing today's game and players as better, just not to the hyperbolic degree you two do at it, which is probably out of trolling, but part of me thinks you really believe Gerald Green would be an all-time great in the 80's.
Well, Kawhi's 4" vert advantage doesn't really come into play since as you know the defender has to anticipate when the offense player is going to take the shot. What made Bird so tough to defend was that quick and high release of his that he brought behind his head. You can't block that. Watch his turnaround game winner against Pippen and a help defending Jordan:
Kawhi isn't blocking that. Now I'm not saying Bird would kill Kawhi. Kawhi has a pretty good track record at stopping all the league's best wings, but KL and co. act like Kawhi would turn Bird into Ryan Kelly.
Yeah, and Bird could be freed up and free himself up as well. Another vid of him outplaying Pippen who the usual suspects think is a dramatically different player from Leonard
God damn, MidnightPulp in here murdering s.
Kk81 trying hard to downplay the greatness of bird. Really, would you say magic would have the same problems with the quicker PGs of today? whatever problems magic faced against Kevin Johnson and Tim hardaway, he will get the same problems facing Allen iverson and Stephen curry.
Same with bird, whatever problems he had against Pippen and Cooper, he will have the same problems vs kawhi Lebron and Durant. Bird had no problems going up against a team with Hakeem and Sampson when every team playing against the Celtics were trying to stop bird, what makes you think he will have problems with kawhi?
Kawhi would make Bird work and hold Bird under his averages, after all, Kawhi is a historically talented defender, could be the best wing defender we've ever seen in the league, but it wouldn't be to the point where Kawhi turns Bird into Doug McDermott.
AMb I already said Magic would have similar problems ... Did you even read this thread?
Love them both but Cooper and Pippen compared to LeBron & Durant?
In the same vein as how is it an insult to put Kobe 15th ... how did I downplay Bird?
Called him my 2nd GOAT SF ever ... said he would be #1 if Lebron doesn't ring again ...
So me saying he would have problems defending LeBron & KD and that Kiwi could cause him problems on defense is a slap in the face or diminishing his greatness? A SF that is DPOTY like Cooper with Pippen's length but dedicated to defense first would make it tough for Bird to score why is that NOT a compliment to KL? Durant and Lebron score on most everyone why is it wrong to argue a non elite level athlete and defender (not player Bird is a GOAT player) would struggle to cover those guys? Bird couldn't guard Nique ... Lebron is bigger and faster than Wilkins ... Durant is longer and a more well rounded scorer. Seems pretty logical they would score on Bird too ... Kiwi is more of a question, but he is improving on offense and his defense more than makes up for it. Again where is the diminishing of Bird?
Not sure how I diminish him with any of that. is anything I am saying crazy or derogatory towards Bird? Is this a race thing?
Now that I have Duncan over Kobe I guess you miss arguing with me ... so now you picking fights that aren't there ...
Bird is in my all time top 10. and at least 2nd GOAT SF ...
And yes Magic could not guard Curry ... but Steph cant guard him either due to size ...apples to oranges, Amb ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 12-01-2015 at 12:18 AM.
I agree on Kiwi's defense ... but I never implied anything like that ...please find where I said anything close to that ...
How many times have you heard past players say the difference between making it to the nba and not making it is very little..
every player on open court agreed on this.
The "little" difference between 80's players and modern is = to that. 80' players wont make the league in todays game.
Can can barely get into the lane with dribbling the ball off his leg or traveling, and he's a top 5 player in the league. Bird wouldn't have any issues putting up numbers in today's league.
Serious question: Why did the number of White Americans in the NBA decline so dramatically since the 80s, tbh?
affirmative action
1980-1981: 24.3% of players were White American
1990-1991: 22.6% of players were White Americans
2003-2004: 16% of players were White Americans
2013-2014: 9.9% of players were White Americans
It's a little unfair that the 80s players were allowed to play vs. such an abundance of them, tbh
stats pulled from page 22 of this report
http://nebula.wsimg.com/6e1489cc3560...&alloworigin=1
^^ That's not White American players, it's including International players..
I'm not fabricating the numbers, look it up
not doubting your figures, but feel free the post a link
Feel free, brother..
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=decline+of+whit...an+nba+players
hilarious copout. can you direct me to the link you specifically pulled your stats from, since none of the front page links there did?
again, i don't doubt the accuracy of your figures, just would be really cool if you provided the link you are basing them off of
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres...ng-fans-2011-2
Based on various statistics, the percentage of African-American players in the NBA has remained relatively constant over the past decade, fluctuating between 72 and 75 percent. The number of foreign-born players has increased exponentially to about 18 percent. The number of white American players, meanwhile, has decreased from 24.3 percent in the 1980-81 season to roughly 10 percent now.
i really doubt that article from 2011 will have figures on the 2013/2014 nba season like the ones you gave
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