Spurs: Duncan really hasnt had that many "great" games relative to other greats...

[Aztecfan03]

You still haven't responded to double-doubles right? Sorry if i missed something but I kind of had to skim parts because your sht is so old.

[midnightpulp]

Im not "focusing" on either. MY queries include both.

Yours dont.

Youre trying to HIDE Duncan's career of "meh" games!! You cant blame the media for calling him boring when the majority of the time he was so unextraordinary.

He wasn't, though. Lacking behind two of the greatest, if not the two greatest big men, to play the game doesn't mean he was "unextraordinary" (which is relative to the viewer. Chuck dropping 30-15 but playing lazy defense and losing sight of John Paxson might be "extraordinary" to you, but to me, it's ordinary). It means he wasn't as consistently extraordinary in the regular seasn as those two. We've seen Duncan trails only those two in "big man big games" in the modern era (and playing around with a variety of filters, the only players who best Duncan are usually Hakeem and Shaq. What? Duncan has to be the greatest big man of all-time for you to consider him "extraordinary?")

But for s and giggles, 30-15-3a-5blk games for both reg season and playoffs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...5&order_by=pts

Second all-time since '86.

Pretty extraordinary.

And again, you're re ed. Just drown now and let your corpse float.

[spurraider21]

I didnt say "throw out playoff games". ALL of my queries include both playoffs and regular season (since they should both count when looking at how many great games a player had).

btw - Duncan played in a lot more playoff games than both Barkley and Garnett.

Deal with it.

thats a good stat on its own to prove Duncan > Barkley and Garnett tbh

Do what?

Duncan has more 25-15-3blk 50% shooting games than every big man not named Hakeem or Shaq since 1986.

What's your argument exactly? That Duncan isn't as good as those two? Even if he isn't (and many think he's not), he's still a superior player to Chuck. And that is the source of your ass pain.

NBA All-time defensive rating.

Rank Player DRtg
1. Gar Heard 95.30
2. Tim Duncan 95.37
3. Dave Cowens* 95.52
4. David Robinson* 95.65
5. Ben Wallace 95.76
6. Clifford Ray 96.26
7. Wes Unseld* 96.31
8. Sam Lacey 96.45
9. George Johnson 96.67
10. Paul Silas 96.77

Oops Duncan is 2nd again.

Except way, way ahead of anyone else on the lists.

Although I give Barkley the advantage as the superior offensive player, his playoffs production doesn't really surpass Duncan in any metric, offensively, tbh, even if we ignore totals..

Prime and slightly past prime Barkley's playoff Rebound % is 18.9, while Duncan(using the same criteria) has a rate of 18.7..

Assists is Barkley at 18.3%, and Duncan at 18.9%..

Using PER and WS to summarize the box score numbers(which is essentially what the OP is doing, using simple box score numbers), Barkley posted a total 25.3 PER and 0.201 WS/48, while Duncan posted a 25.6 PER and 0.214 WS/48..

So, offensively, their playoff output is virtually the same, once you adjust for pace, as shown by these numbers..defensively, as pulp already pointed out, the difference is the disparity between Marc Gasol and David Lee, tbh..

If you want to include Karl Malone, it's even easier to roast, since Malone had a reputation of choking in the playoffs, similar to David Robinson, tbh..

OP used arbitrary, cherry-picked numbers to form an argument..once you expand the discussion to include actual evidence and facts, Duncan blows Barkley and Malone out of the water..as for Hakeem and Shaq, I'd have Duncan below both in terms of peak play, but ahead of them from a career perspective..

Here you go:
number of double doubles
Rank Player Double-Doubles Total Games Played % of DD
1 Karl Malone* 811 1476 55%
2 Tim Duncan 767 1180 65%
3 Kevin Garnett 735 1323 56%
4 Shaquille O'Neal 727 1207 60%
5 Hakeem Olajuwon* 718 1238 58%
6 Charles Barkley* 677 1073 63%
7 Patrick Ewing* 580 1183 49%
8 David Robinson* 543 987 55%


Taking your rant against playoff games because it skewed the data due to total number of games played(I agree) into considering, note that Malone played 1476 regular season games vs. 1180 for Duncan. In fact, of the players with the top number of double double games, Duncan was the most consistent in registering a double double in 65% of the career regular season games he played. The good news is, your idol, Barkley, who I rank as the #2 PF of all time, shows up 2nd at 63%, and #6 overall in number of double doubles.

this thread is such a pathetic attempt to downgrade timmy
picking arbitrary numbers to "prove" he's not as good as those guys
doesn't like playoff filter because those are games that mean more and come against superior compe ion
doesn't like defensive stats

[da_suns_fan]

Okay you didn't answer my question. How is 20 and 10 an "expression of boredom"?

Because its not extraordinary. Players have 20/10 in MOST NBA games. You can give Duncan credit for the sheer amount of these games, but he still didnt have as many as Malone or Shaq so who cares?

Where are Duncan's BIG GAMES? Maybe Im spoiled but I wanna see lots of 35 points and 12 rebound games from the dominant big men considered "greatest ever":

1 Shaquille O'Neal C 116
2 Karl Malone* F 87
3 Hakeem Olajuwon* C 1986 1997 74
4 Charles Barkley* F 71
5 Patrick Ewing* C 58
6 David Robinson* C 42
7 Tim Duncan F 29
8 Dirk Nowitzki F 27

Duncan just barely beats out Dirk (who was never a great rebounder). You can really see where the "cutoff" is after David Robinson.

So yeah..i give Duncan a big "meh".

[midnightpulp]

ALWAYS fun to show up and bring truth to the masses. I really should do something more productive.

Like put Serge Ibaka and Kenneth Faried on All NBA teams?

But seriously, the most productive thing you could do is breathe less oxygen.

[da_suns_fan]

You still haven't responded to double-doubles right? Sorry if i missed something but I kind of had to skim parts because your sht is so old.

2nd all time in double doubles.

Great.

[da_suns_fan]

Like put Serge Ibaka and Kenneth Faried on All NBA teams?

But seriously, the most productive thing you could do is breathe less oxygen.

Deflection wont help you hide Timmy's deficiencies!


No matter what you do, someone always did it better than duncan!!

[da_suns_fan]

But seriously, the most productive thing you could do is breathe less oxygen.

LOL!

Translation: You've made me so mad I'd wish you'd DIE!!!!

Game. Set. Match.

[midnightpulp]

Because its not extraordinary. Players have 20/10 in MOST NBA games. You can give Duncan credit for the sheer amount of these games, but he still didnt have as many as Malone or Shaq so who cares?

Where are Duncan's BIG GAMES? Maybe Im spoiled but I wanna see lots of 35 points and 12 rebound games from the dominant big men considered "greatest ever":


Duncan just barely beats out Dirk (who was never a great rebounder). You can really see where the "cutoff" is after David Robinson.

So yeah..i give Duncan a big "meh".

And Spurs fans are spoiled and like to see great defense. Something we never got with Chuck leaving John Paxson and letting Otis Thorpe out rebound him in a key playoff game.

Here's another "great game" from Chuck:

Phoenix wins the first two games of the series on the road. Houston steals game 3 in Phoenix. Game 4 is essentially the series at this point. And what does Chuck, at his peak, do?

7-21, 4 TOs, 1 assist.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...405150PHO.html

And then in the next game, the round mound of lazy defense gets dominated on the boards by Otis Thorpe:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...405170HOU.html

Spurs fans are indeed spoiled. We like to see our superstars step up in pressure situations, like this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...305150LAL.html

Or this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...305230DAL.html

Or this:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...804190SAS.html

Was Duncan "meh" in the Final game?

[FYM]

OP is re ed tbh

[midnightpulp]

Another game from Chuck that I'm sure spoiled DSF:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...306200PHO.html

7-18 and losing John Paxson on defense in the biggest game of his career. But he sure rebounded his misses well with those 7 offensive rebounds.

[da_suns_fan]

Another game from Chuck that I'm sure spoiled DSF:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...306200PHO.html

7-18 and losing John Paxson on defense in the biggest game of his career. But he sure rebounded his misses well with those 7 offensive rebounds.

I blame Dan Majerle's air ball with under a minute to go much more than Barkley's steal attempt, tbh.

Deflection wont hide Tim Duncan's deficiencies!

[midnightpulp]

I blame Dan Majerle's air ball with under a minute to go much more than Barkley's steal attempt, tbh.

Deflection wont hide Tim Duncan's deficiencies!

What deficiencies? He stepped up when it mattered most. Something that could never be said for Chuck.

Deflection won't hide Chuck's terrible defense and penchant for choking.

But feel free to enjoy those 35 point regular season games, which as a Suns fan, you've probably witnessed more at your expense than the other way around. , how many of those "big games" have Spurs' players dished out on your team over the past decade?

[Stabula]

Duncan sucks

[da_suns_fan]

Duncan sucks

[whitemamba]

trampstamp...

[Knoxxx]

Duncan is still the best player on the court at age 37. What more do you need to see?

Prime Duncan handed Shaq and Malone their asses. What more do need to see?

[ambchang]

I didnt say "throw out playoff games". ALL of my queries include both playoffs and regular season (since they should both count when looking at how many great games a player had).

btw - Duncan played in a lot more playoff games than both Barkley and Garnett.

Deal with it.

Hmm ... tells you something about Duncan's success

Duncan is boring and successful.

Deal with it.

[Cry Havoc]

[Koolaid_Man]

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