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  1. #101
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    I like how you start from 1600 and think it is valid.
    I also like how you make it those 100 year averages to try and dampen the signal as much as you could.

    Your graph is still not valid. That argument wasn't that interesting back then.

    Is that all you have?

  2. #102
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I like how you start from 1600 and think it is valid.
    I also like how you make it those 100 year averages to try and dampen the signal as much as you could.

    Your graph is still not valid.

    Is that all you have?
    I'm sorry that you don't understand it. If I take the time to explain it, will your puny mind comprehend the exponential 81/100/120 yr rate broken down to a dynamic annual formula?

    I started it when the SORCE data started.

    Like a whiny , you nitpick so many think you are ignorant of. How pathetic of you.

    Maybe it would help t ask questions. Until you do, you will remain an ignorant, whiny .
    Last edited by Wild Cobra; 12-21-2015 at 03:10 PM.

  3. #103
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    I'm sorry that you don't understand it. If I take the time to explain it, will your puny mind comprehend the exponential 81/100/120 yr rate broken down to a dynamic annual formula?
    Oh I get regression series and natural proportions, dimwit. You very obviously don't.

  4. #104
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    Oh I get regression series and natural proportions, dimwit. You very obviously don't.
    Care to share with us what I did wrong, or are you speaking out your ass again?

  5. #105
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    Care to share with us what I did wrong, or are you speaking out your ass again?
    I like how you start from 1600 and think it is valid.
    I also like how you make it those 100 year averages to try and dampen the signal as much as you could.

    I opened with it.

  6. #106
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    And remember how I told you before the last time you posted this how you don't understand linear systems and normalizing statistics?

    We're right back there again with you trying to dampen a periodic signal down into a line and trying to ad hoc shoehorn it onto another graph.

    You clearly are not competent to make your own graphs.

  7. #107
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    And remember how I told you before the last time you posted this how you don't understand linear systems and normalizing statistics?

    We're right back there again with you trying to dampen a periodic signal down into a line.

    You clearly are not competent to make your own graphs.
    You never explained it. You just said I was wrong.

    Please show us what the response to the annual TSI would do when plotted. You are the only one who makes such a claim. Even other warmers I have debated in another forum acknowledge the correctness of the data and my results for my methodology.

  8. #108
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    I mean as you step back the dampening the line moves closer and closer to the empirical apparent curve.

  9. #109
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    I mean as you step back the dampening the line moves closer and closer to the empirical apparent curve.
    "Step back?"

    Are you always this bad at explaining things?

    Do you mean increase the speed of equalization?

  10. #110
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    What is different about how we measure the sun from 1600 and how we measure the sun from now?
    Why on Earth would you choose to scale proportionally up from 81 for a rolling average except to try and make a line?

  11. #111
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    What your harebrain thinks of equalization is actually an attenuation of the TIR which is a periodic system which serves to dampen the signal. You just chose to dampen it at a rate of 80 to 120 times the period length of what you were comparing it to.

    You are one clueless bumbling .

  12. #112
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    dp

  13. #113
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    What is different about how we measure the sun from 1600 and how we measure the sun from now?
    Why on Earth would you choose to scale proportionally up from 81 for a rolling average except to try and make a line?
    How many times must I explain this to dip s like you?

    That isn't a rolling average. It is an exponential response trying to equalize to a changing value. That is why when the response curve is lower then the TSI, it rises. And falls when the response is higher. I there was a single shift that held a new value, it would take 81, 100, and 120 years for the response to make it's way 70% to the change.

    Regardless o how we measure the sun, the curve will be similar as there aren't any significant differences in relative values. Only the actual levels. Inthe end, we have a long slow climb in solar heating of the earth until around 2004 with the same assumption Hansen makes with CO2.

  14. #114
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    What your harebrain thinks of equalization is actually an attenuation of the TIR which is a periodic system which serves to dampen the signal. You just chose to dampen it at a rate of 80 to 120 times the period length of what you were comparing it to.

    You are one clueless bumbling .
    I mean if you want to equalize on that harebrained level you would need to do the same thing to the Hansen handwaving from 7 years ago.
    OMG..

    Do you even have a brain, or is it made of silly putty?

  15. #115
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    How many times must I explain this to dip s like you?

    That isn't a rolling average. It is an exponential response trying to equalize to a changing value. That is why when the response curve is lower then the TSI, it rises. And falls when the response is higher. I there was a single shift that held a new value, it would take 81, 100, and 120 years for the response to make it's way 70% to the change.

    Regardless o how we measure the sun, the curve will be similar as there aren't any significant differences in relative values. Only the actual levels. Inthe end, we have a long slow climb in solar heating of the earth until around 2004 with the same assumption Hansen makes with CO2.
    You should just relabel them rolling averages over those periods and erase all that pedantic failure.

    How about you make a graph comparing the other forcings using similar rolling averages. That would actually be meaningful. All you have done to this point is show you can do middle school math and science concepts.

  16. #116
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    You should just relabel them rolling averages over those periods and erase all that pedantic failure.

    How about you make a graph comparing the other forcing using similar rolling averages. That would actually be meaningful. All you have done to this point is show you can do middle school math and science concepts.
    LOL...

    My God, you are a major idiot.

    That is not a rolling average.

    I'm done with your stupidity wasting my time.

    Goodbye.

  17. #117
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    LOL...

    My God, you are a major idiot.

    That is not a rolling average.

    I'm done with your stupidity wasting my time.

    Goodbye.
    You can run away if you like.

    You still haven't justified your "same 70% equalizations over 80 to 100 years." I mean an average is when you take all the data points over a range and then divide it by the range. IOW. you weight them all proportionally equal. Sounds an awful lot like an equalization over a range.

    In fact your dampening the signal twice. First with the 70% of the total and in your rolling 'equalization' that samples at an incredibly low rate.

    Compare and contrast with how the University of Colorado samples at a period of 6 hours.



    6-hourly averaged SORCE/TIM data are available since March 2003
    http://spot.colorado.edu/~koppg/TSI/

    All you are doing is degrading the signal twice and then comparing it to the original signal. Oh and then waving your hands and saying that it's significant. Harebrained is about right.
    Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 12-22-2015 at 12:28 AM.

  18. #118
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    Too bad the NOAA records have been "corrected." We really don't know what it would look like of made from the recorded data of the past. I assume we would still show the latter years as generally warmer, just not as much.
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/12/1...rature-trends/




    Last edited by SnakeBoy; 12-22-2015 at 07:09 PM.

  19. #119
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    You can run away if you like.

    You still haven't justified your "same 70% equalizations over 80 to 100 years." I mean an average is when you take all the data points over a range and then divide it by the range. IOW. you weight them all proportionally equal. Sounds an awful lot like an equalization over a range.

    In fact your dampening the signal twice. First with the 70% of the total and in your rolling 'equalization' that samples at an incredibly low rate.

    Compare and contrast with how the University of Colorado samples at a period of 6 hours.





    http://spot.colorado.edu/~koppg/TSI/

    All you are doing is degrading the signal twice and then comparing it to the original signal. Oh and then waving your hands and saying that it's significant. Harebrained is about right.
    Not my fault you fail to comprehend what the graph shows. What shows you to be even more the fool, is you ignorantly attack, instead of asking what is happening in it.

    No man really becomes a fool until he stops asking questions - Charles P. Steinmetz

  20. #120
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    I know it's a silly question because you don't know better, but why do you link a blog, rather than the source (SORCE) pages?

  21. #121
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    I know it's a silly question because you don't know better, but why do you link a blog, rather than the source (SORCE) pages?
    Why do you post graphs that you made yourself? Look at the bottom of the page at the bibliography btw. Note the authors credentials. Compare them with your own.

    Also again:

    You still haven't justified your "same 70% equalizations over 80 to 100 years."

  22. #122
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    Dr. Greg Kopp is a Senior Research Scientist at the University of Colorado’s Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics. He has a background in solar physics and aerospace instrumentation. Greg is the instrument scientist for the TIM (Total Irradiance Monitor) spaceflight instruments aboard SORCE, TCTE, and TSIS. As the PI of the TSI Radiometer Facility, he helped establish the now accepted lower TSI value of 1361 W/m² representative of solar minimum. He maintains updated TSI plots on his TSI page.

    http://spot.colorado.edu/~koppg/TSI/

  23. #123
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    Why do you post graphs that you made yourself? Look at the bottom of the page at the bibliography btw. Note the authors credentials. Compare them with your own.

    Also again:

    You still haven't justified your "same 70% equalizations over 80 to 100 years."
    Would you expect the equalization time to be much different?

  24. #124
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    More Than Exxon: Big Oil Companies for Years Shared Damning Climate Research

    New investigative reporting exposes a task force headed by the American Petroleum Ins ute also knew about global warming since the 1970's

    It wasn't just Exxon that knew fossil fuels were cooking the planet.

    New investigative reporting by Neela Banerjee with Inside Climate News revealed on Tuesday that scientists and engineers from nearly every major U.S. and multinational oil and gas company may have for decades known about the impacts of carbon emissions on the climate.


    Between 1979 and 1983, the American Petroleum Ins ute (API), the industry's most powerful lobby group, ran a task force for fossil fuel companies to "monitor and share climate research," according to internal do ents obtained by Inside Climate News.


    According to the reporting:

    Like Exxon, the companies also expressed a willingness to understand the links between their product, greater CO2 concentrations and the climate, the papers reveal. Some corporations ran their own research units as well, although they were smaller and less ambitious than Exxon's and focused on climate modeling, said James J. Nelson, the former director of the task force.


    "It was a fact-finding task force," Nelson said in an interview. "We wanted to look at emerging science, the implications of it and where improvements could be made, if possible, to reduce emissions."

    The 'CO2 and Climate Task Force,' which changed in 1980 its name to the
    'Climate and Energy Task Force,' included researchers from Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Amoco, Phillips, Texaco, S , Sunoco, and Sohio, among others.

    One memo by an Exxon task force representative pointed to
    1979 "background paper on CO2," which "predicted when the first clear effects of climate change might be felt," noting that the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was rising steadily.

    And at a February 1980 meeting in New York, the task force invited Professor John A. Laurmann of Stanford University to brief members about climate science.

    "In his conclusions section, Laurmann estimated that
    the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere would double in 2038, which he said would likely lead to a 2.5 degrees Celsius rise in global average temperatures with 'major economic consequences,'" Banerjee reports.

    He then told the task force that
    models showed a 5 degrees Celsius rise by 2067, with 'globally catastrophic effects,'" Banerjee reports.

    The do ents show that API members, at one point, considered an alternative path in the face of these dire predictions:

    Bruce S. Bailey of Texaco offered "for consideration" the idea that "an overall goal of the Task Force should be to help develop ground rules for energy release of fuels and the cleanup of fuels as they relate to CO2 creation," according to the minutes of a meeting on Feb. 29, 1980.


    The minutes also show that the task force discussed a "potential area" for research and development that called for it to "'Investigate the Market Penetration Requirements of Introducing a New Energy Source into World Wide Use.' This would include the technical implications of energy source changeover, research timing and requirements."

    "Yet," Banerjee notes, "by the 1990s, it was clear that API had opted for a markedly different approach to the threat of climate change."


    The lobby group teamed up with Exxon and others to form the Global Climate Coalition (GCC), which successfully lobbied the U.S. to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol.


    The damning revelations are the latest in an ongoing investigation into what
    the fossil fuel industry knew about climate change and then suppressed for decades —all while continuing to profit from the planet's destruction.

    Reports that Exxon, specifically, lied about climate change were published early October in the Los Angeles Times, mirroring a separate but similar investigation by Inside Climate Newsin September. Those findings set off a storm of outrage, including a probe by the New York Attorney General.

    Nelson, a former head of the API task force, told Banerjee that with the growing powers of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the early 1980's, API decided to shift gears.

    "They took the environmental unit and put it into the political department, which was primarily lobbyists," he said. "They weren't focused on doing research or on improving the oil industry's impact on pollution. They were less interested in pushing the envelope of science and more interested in how to make it more advantageous politically or economically for the oil industry. That's not meant as a criticism. It's just a fact of life."


    http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...imate-research



  25. #125
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    More Than Exxon: Big Oil Companies for Years Shared Damning Climate Research

    New investigative reporting exposes a task force headed by the American Petroleum Ins ute also knew about global warming since the 1970's

    It wasn't just Exxon that knew fossil fuels were cooking the planet.

    New investigative reporting by Neela Banerjee with Inside Climate News revealed on Tuesday that scientists and engineers from nearly every major U.S. and multinational oil and gas company may have for decades known about the impacts of carbon emissions on the climate.


    Between 1979 and 1983, the American Petroleum Ins ute (API), the industry's most powerful lobby group, ran a task force for fossil fuel companies to "monitor and share climate research," according to internal do ents obtained by Inside Climate News.


    According to the reporting:

    Like Exxon, the companies also expressed a willingness to understand the links between their product, greater CO2 concentrations and the climate, the papers reveal. Some corporations ran their own research units as well, although they were smaller and less ambitious than Exxon's and focused on climate modeling, said James J. Nelson, the former director of the task force.


    "It was a fact-finding task force," Nelson said in an interview. "We wanted to look at emerging science, the implications of it and where improvements could be made, if possible, to reduce emissions."

    The 'CO2 and Climate Task Force,' which changed in 1980 its name to the
    'Climate and Energy Task Force,' included researchers from Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Amoco, Phillips, Texaco, S , Sunoco, and Sohio, among others.

    One memo by an Exxon task force representative pointed to
    1979 "background paper on CO2," which "predicted when the first clear effects of climate change might be felt," noting that the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was rising steadily.

    And at a February 1980 meeting in New York, the task force invited Professor John A. Laurmann of Stanford University to brief members about climate science.

    "In his conclusions section, Laurmann estimated that
    the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere would double in 2038, which he said would likely lead to a 2.5 degrees Celsius rise in global average temperatures with 'major economic consequences,'" Banerjee reports.

    He then told the task force that
    models showed a 5 degrees Celsius rise by 2067, with 'globally catastrophic effects,'" Banerjee reports.

    The do ents show that API members, at one point, considered an alternative path in the face of these dire predictions:

    Bruce S. Bailey of Texaco offered "for consideration" the idea that "an overall goal of the Task Force should be to help develop ground rules for energy release of fuels and the cleanup of fuels as they relate to CO2 creation," according to the minutes of a meeting on Feb. 29, 1980.


    The minutes also show that the task force discussed a "potential area" for research and development that called for it to "'Investigate the Market Penetration Requirements of Introducing a New Energy Source into World Wide Use.' This would include the technical implications of energy source changeover, research timing and requirements."

    "Yet," Banerjee notes, "by the 1990s, it was clear that API had opted for a markedly different approach to the threat of climate change."


    The lobby group teamed up with Exxon and others to form the Global Climate Coalition (GCC), which successfully lobbied the U.S. to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol.


    The damning revelations are the latest in an ongoing investigation into what
    the fossil fuel industry knew about climate change and then suppressed for decades —all while continuing to profit from the planet's destruction.

    Reports that Exxon, specifically, lied about climate change were published early October in the Los Angeles Times, mirroring a separate but similar investigation by Inside Climate Newsin September. Those findings set off a storm of outrage, including a probe by the New York Attorney General.

    Nelson, a former head of the API task force, told Banerjee that with the growing powers of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the early 1980's, API decided to shift gears.

    "They took the environmental unit and put it into the political department, which was primarily lobbyists," he said. "They weren't focused on doing research or on improving the oil industry's impact on pollution. They were less interested in pushing the envelope of science and more interested in how to make it more advantageous politically or economically for the oil industry. That's not meant as a criticism. It's just a fact of life."


    http://www.commondreams.org/news/201...imate-research


    yawn.

    Isn't this the third time posting this nonsense now?

    OK Dorthy. Click your heels three time and say "there's no place like home" three times.

    LOL...

    Common Dreams.

    LOL...

    LOL...

    LOL...

    LOL...

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