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Isn't the solution then to subsidize the good ones and not fund the ty ones?
And more good ones, too.
Isn't the solution then to subsidize the good ones and not fund the ty ones?
Some of the kids in college have no business being there - can't handle the work. I remember one Spur poster saying he helped his wife grade college papers and how discouraged he was for the future of the country.
Umm, they aren't guaranteeing admission into every school. Nor are they guaranteeing graduation.
Just because a selective public school like UCLA would become tuition free that doesn't mean they need to compromise admission standards. If anything it would make admission even more compe ive because you will have more applicants
It was 101A, I think his wife is a chemistry professor. Not surprising considering how anti-science this country is becoming with things like the big bang theory, global warming, evolution, vaccinations, the stupid organic food movement, etc.
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I thought that was fairly well accepted?
Neil degrasse Tyson 4 prez
Guilty. It was specifically converting metric units - Chem 101 lab. Meters to centimeters - moving a decimal. Over half couldn't.
Please tell me this was at least a class for humanities majors and not one you'd get GE credit for in a science or engineering degree.
Non chem majors. Nutritionists, safety science etc. Chen 111 is the tougher path
Funny though that a lot of this questions (OMG will the world end when College is free!?!?!) have already been answered a long time ago outside the US, mostly with positive results. Even in cases where free public college is available, there's still a thriving market for private paid ins utions, for those that can afford it and want perhaps a more 'prestigious' degree. And there's also kids that still don't go to college even when it's available at no cost.
But, it does provide access to education to everyone regardless of their socioeconomic status, which a lot of these countries deem a crucial state role.
I disagree that there is access to college for everyone. In some countries, they take exams and if you don't score high enough - tough. Or you are tracked toward a vocation or trade. These exams turn into high pressure events - imagine one or set of exam(s) determining your entire future. Here in the US - there are second chances.
The way it is here, if you're good enough, you'll get a scholarship. If you're poor enough, you'll get financial aid. If you're not poor enough or not good enough to get a scholarship, work part time and study part time - go to community college and transfer to local public university.
or GI Bill. Good post.
Also spoke to some German friends of ours this weekend. Son is the equivalent of a Junior here. He is in Gymnasium - the highest track. Wants to be a Dentist - follow in Dad's footsteps. But as his mother said - he cannot. He is average. He has not worked hard enough, he will not be a dentist. This wasn't hyperbole. It was a fact. 16 years old; that much of his future is detemined.
Seems like "freeness" comes with a price - lack of FREEDOM. And isn't that the whole CRUX of the matter?
I thought in Germany you can still go to college even if not in the highest track if you put in a couple of solid years apprenticeship to prove that you can hack it in the universities, so that you're not locked out of good earning potential by being stupid in your teen years if you can prove yourself later on.
What is wrong with merit being a deciding factor? We can argue about what is merit but that prospects are tested shouldn't be a problem.
Every country has their systems, but accessibility is always there. "financial aid" is oftentimes a big pile of debt, whether you finish your career or not, and they're almost all govt subsidized loans.
So making a bad choice when you're very early in your life not only penalizes you professionally, but also lingers with you financially for a long ass time. The worst part is that the loan makers get paid not matter what. There's no "free market" in it.
I frankly can't see how that's preferable to a merit test, where if you don't cut the mus , you can either A) prepare better and try again, or B) move on to vocational or trade, but you always walk away scot-free.
According to Ulrike - emphatically, her son was out of the running.
This is correct. You can enter College in Germany if you completes the Gymnasium (automatically gives you the Abitur, which qualifies you for college). The problem in Germany is that almost half of students don't finish the Gymnasium, but that doesn't mean they can't enter college. You can complete a ap ude test (Begabtenprüfung) and still be admitted. Or you can attend vocational school for a couple years and pass the admission test (Eingangsprüfung) and you're good to go too.
Sounds to me Ulrike doesn't feel his son is worthy. There's also that strictness about Germans, tbh...
Hmmm, I took a free online course in functional analysis for fun a couple of years ago and one of the students there I talked to told me he was doing an apprenticeship to prepare for studying math in one of the universities. But he was in his early 20s.
How can you say accessibility is always there? 101A just gave you an example of in Germany of it's decided at 16 years old - no second chance - no dentistry. I have a friend from Singapore who wanted to be a physical therapist. She didn't score high enough and left Singapore to come to the US, attended community college and went on to become a physical therapist. If she had stayed in Singapore, she would never have fulfilled her dream.
What some don't realize is that resources are limited. If a country is gonna pay for free college and free that, something must give. There just isn't enough to go around - certainly not the way Americans are used to or will tolerate. Telling people that NO you can't be xxxx would be anathema to Americans. If some one REALLY wants it, let them work/study part-time and earn it.
I know how the German system works, and it doesn't work like that, period. Not saying 101A is lying, just probably didn't get the right info. I know 101A is a standup person.
And other countries might be worse than the US... all I said is that there's plenty of examples of countries where College is free, not even admission tests and it works pretty well, including a secondary market for private, paid schools.
Uh, no, that's actually not true, but you're not well versed enough in economics to understand why that's not true. The question actually is much different, and it has to do with what do the people of the given country feel the role of the state should be in certain areas. That obviously varies from country to country, but taking the German example, they feel the state should provide education and health for it's citizens. What's even more interesting/extreme with Germany is that College is free even for foreigners. It's not uncommon for Americans to get a free College education in Germany.
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