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Also, this goes to the core of what I was posting on the other thread about taxes. We face a lot of times decisions that might be legal but some deem unjust.
That's a perfectly valid opinion, even if it's just that.
I've read at least two of those walls of text, and other than opinion from certain individuals there's zero "facts" in there about government misconduct, other than the fact that there's laws that some people don't agree with.
That doesn't give them a license to break them. There's a whole "civil disobedience" angle to all this, but it doesn't really work IRL. We moved to a court system and lawyers a long ass time ago, and that's where you go get results.
Some people might not like that in itself, but c'est la vie. The world isn't waiting for you to adapt.
Also, this goes to the core of what I was posting on the other thread about taxes. We face a lot of times decisions that might be legal but some deem unjust.
That's a perfectly valid opinion, even if it's just that.
For those allergic to reading.
You're the one who refused to link it.ashamed of a factual source
Why did you constantly refuse to link it?
lol factual
Instead of crying about a link missing from a post from over a month ago why don't you actually try rebutting the claims from the post itself? You keep lol'ing at the source yet you've provided zero evidence to prove any of the actions by the BLM and FWS against the Hammonds false. Articles on the flooding and fence building have already been posted. If I really cared enough I'm sure I could verify every claim in there but there's no point in wasting my time with you refusing to even discuss the topic.
Did the BLM do anything illegal?
Does something have to be illegal to be wrong?
No. So what did the BLM do that was wrong in your opinion? All of the sources you have linked are from a very emotional and one sided point of view.
Yeah, but why did you refuse to link it every time you posted it?
It was important enough for you to post multiple times, but for some reason you were ashamed to link it.
I'm sorry my asking about it bothers you so much, but just about everyone noticed your cir spection here.
Oregon officials want feds and militants to pay for costly Malheur occupation
The cost of the six-week standoff in rural Oregon that ended peacefully on Thursday will likely cost millions of dollars, with local and state agencies looking to the federal government – and the arrested occupiers – to shoulder the bulk of the bills.The total outlay may not be known for weeks or months, but the remote location of the occupation, at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in the eastern part of the state, combined with the complexity of the law enforcement response, suggest a costly operation, said Brian Levin, a criminal justice expert at California State University San Bernardino.
“When you have an unpredictable occupation like this you have to free up a lot of personnel assets and resources,” Levin said. “The cost of maintaining a multi-agency task force can get very expensive.”
The protest over federal control of Western lands began in early January and ended Thursday when the final four holdouts surrendered.
Oregon Governor Kate Brown is seeking up to $1 million from the state legislature to offset expenditures by counties and towns, and said the state in turn would seek reimbursement from the federal government.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/oreg...e+Raw+Story%29
Bundy's Inglorious Basterds are so ed
I never refused to link it dip . Post #577 was the very first time I posted it and it was linked. I obviously missed copying the link the next time and re-quoted that same post.
Now that your ashamed link line of questioning well has dried up why don't you actually try rebutting the claims from the post itself. You keep lol'ing at the source yet you've provided zero evidence to prove any of the actions by the BLM and FWS against the Hammonds false. Articles on the flooding and fence building have already been posted.
Already answered and if you are so curious and don't like what was given do your own research
"Just an oversight."
lol
Now I want to know why you stonewalled for so long. Just seems really stupid.Now that your ashamed link line of questioning well has dried up why don't you actually try rebutting the claims from the post itself.
If the Hammonds broke their agreements with those en ies and had their rights revoked because of that, what is your argument?You keep lol'ing at the source yet you've provided zero evidence to prove any of the actions by the BLM and FWS against the Hammonds false. Articles on the flooding and fence building have already been posted.
As for the flooding, the article says that's an ACoE issue. If you have evidence of collusion between them and the other two en ies you are ing about, post it.
And link it.
You haven't really said what the BLM did that was wrong. You just said they've been ing with the the family for 50 years and then copy pasted a slew of partisan appeals to emotion. I am just trying to separate facts from stories (which you're quite to prone to) as you've clearly established yourself as on of the more emotional men on this site.
What is the motive of the BLM land grab? I just don't buy it. I think there are other factors at play here that you're refusing to acknowledge because they don't fit into your preconceived conclusion that the federal government is the bad guy.
Cliven Bundy denied bail as a “danger to the community”
http://redgreenandblue.org/2016/02/1...the-community/
Wish they'd have made one of brother Droopy.
Oregon militant accuses feds of committing ‘works of the devil’ in $666
Shawna Cox, who was arrested last month during the militant takeover at a federal reserve in Oregon, sued federal officials on Wednesday, accusing them of victimizing herself and her compatriots.“I am asking for criminal and civil penalties for the perpetrators that subjected me and my witnesses to the crimes I have identified herein,” the lawsuit stated. “I Claim I and the others involved in these actions have suffered damages from the works of the devil in excess of $666,666,666,666.66.”
Cox makes reference in the suit to her current indictment on federal conspiracy charges following her Jan. 26 arrest, stating that she intends to ask jurors to pursue criminal and civil charges against state and federal officials who were “involved in the ambush that attempted to execute myself and others and executed Lavoy Fini .”
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/oreg...e+Raw+Story%29
No doubt head Shawna has plenty of supporters right here on STP.
Still less than Bush gave the banks
Oregon militant accuses feds of committing ‘works of the devil’ in $666
Shawna Cox, who was arrested last month during the militant takeover at a federal reserve in Oregon, sued federal officials on Wednesday, accusing them of victimizing herself and her compatriots.“I am asking for criminal and civil penalties for the perpetrators that subjected me and my witnesses to the crimes I have identified herein,” the lawsuit stated. “I Claim I and the others involved in these actions have suffered damages from the works of the devil in excess of $666,666,666,666.66.”
Cox makes reference in the suit to her current indictment on federal conspiracy charges following her Jan. 26 arrest, stating that she intends to ask jurors to pursue criminal and civil charges against state and federal officials who were “involved in the ambush that attempted to execute myself and others and executed Lavoy Fini .”
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/oreg...e+Raw+Story%29
No doubt head Shawna has plenty of supporters right here on STP.
Tha REAL RedSkins
*since 1492
You do much better at fake black then fake mexican.
The Koch Brothers Are Now Funding The Bundy Land Seizure Agenda
The political network of the conservative billionaires Charles and David Koch signaled last week that it is expanding its financial and organizational support for a coalition of anti-government activists and militants who are working to seize and sell America’s national forests, monuments, and other public lands.
The disclosure, made through emails sent by the American Lands Council and Koch-backed group Federalism in Action to their members, comes as the 40-day armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon is winding to an end.
Though ClimateProgress has previously uncovered and reported on the dark money that the Kochs have provided for political efforts to seize and sell public lands, recent organizational changes reveal that the Koch network is providing direct support to the ringleader of the land grab movement, Utah state representative Ken Ivory, and has forged an alliance with groups and individuals who have militia ties and share extreme anti-government ideologies.
The expanded window into the Koch network’s support for the land transfer movement opened on February 3, 2016, when the American Lands Council (ALC) (a group whose goal is to pass state-level legislation demanding that the federal government turn over publicly owned national forests and other public lands) announced that Ivory would be stepping down as its president to join a South Carolina-based group called Federalism in Action (FIA).
At ALC, Ivory had risen to be the most prominent and active voice in the land seizure movement, but his tenure as president was plagued by evidence that the group violated state lobbying laws, was tied to the Koch-backed American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and used taxpayer money to fund their campaigns to seize public lands.
Though he will continue to serve as an unpaid member of the American Lands Council executive committee, Ivory is joining the FIA’s “Free the Lands” project, a joint initiative between Federalism in Action and The American Lands Council Foundation.
This new “Free the Lands” project sits at the confluence of Koch funding, anti-government ideology, and land seizure activists and militants. The graphic below illustrates this web of funding, resources, and staff.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...-bundy-agenda/
Free the Lands to be raped by rapacious resource extractors.
FBI Arrests Trump Campaigner over 2014 Bundy Ranch Standoff
The 11th Republican presidential debate comes as the FBI arrested a Donald Trump campaigner and 11 other people on charges related to the 2014 standoff at Cliven Bundy’s ranch in Nevada. Jerry DeLemus is the co-chair of Veterans for Donald Trump in New Hampshire. He’s been indicted on nine federal felony charges, including conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, assault on a federal officer and several firearms charges. Two of Cliven Bundy’s sons were also arrested in the FBI sweep, meaning that a total of five Bundy family members are now in jail awaiting trial.
You were asking about that audio? How about a second video from inside the truck too?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=488_1457473498
Burns, OR - An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Fini and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.
The bullets didn't hit Fini and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.
The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Fini three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.
A prosecutor ruled the fatal shooting was legally justified, saying state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injure or kill someone. Fini kept moving his hands toward a pocket that contained a loaded handgun. Although he was shot
from behind, Fini had a trooper in front of him armed with a Taser who was thought to be in danger.
Fini , 54, an Arizona rancher, was one of the leaders of the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns.
Investigators gave no details to explain why the one FBI agent, a member of the Hostage Rescue Team, wouldn't report the two shots. They also didn't indicate what his four colleagues on the team did to warrant investigation other than saying it was related to conduct after the shooting.
===========================
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...ie_uncove.html
Bullet hole on LaVoy Fini 's truck traced to elite FBI team
BEND – Something didn't seem right about the bullet hole in the top of Robert "LaVoy" Fini 's white Dodge pickup.
Investigators from the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office could account for bullet holes in the left front hood, the driver's side mirror and the front grille. They came from the automatic weapon of a state trooper who had fired three times at the truck as Fini raced at 70 mph toward a police roadblock on Jan. 26.
The angle of a fourth bullet hole didn't match the others.
An elaborate computer analysis, a review of the FBI aerial video of the shooting scene and a video from a passenger in Fini 's pickup produced a result that startled the team poring over evidence into Fini 's fatal shooting that day.
The fourth round, police concluded, was fired by an FBI agent who subsequently twice denied to investigators ever firing his gun. As the investigation proceeded, detectives determined he also fired a second time, but didn't hit anything at the scene.
The discovery of that gunfire and conduct afterward by the agent and four other agents have triggered a criminal investigation that could result in the prosecution of all five. The agents all serve on the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team. Authorities on Tuesday released few details about the matter and didn't identify the agents by name.
But the disclosure is a jolt to the FBI. The Oregon investigators two weeks ago flew to Washington, D.C., to directly brief top FBI officials about their findings. The U.S. Justice Department's Office of Inspector General is now investigating along with the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office. The Inspector General's Office, which is separate from the FBI, doesn't discuss active investigations.
As the 41-day takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge unfolded, the violent outcomes of standoffs at Idaho's Ruby Ridge and in Waco, Texas, were on the minds of law enforcement, occupiers and self-styled militia. No one wanted to trigger a confrontation similar to those events, which resulted in the deaths of civilians and led to harsh criticism of federal agents.
Detectives investigating the Fini shooting questioned the five FBI agents at least twice, including the night of the shooting. Such questioning is standard for officer-involved shootings.
The Hostage Rescue Team is among the FBI's most elite outfits. The members have no other job but to work full time as a SWAT-style group, operating from the FBI base in Quantico, Virginia. The team is the FBI's global resource for anti-terrorism operations, but it also is selectively deployed across the country to deal with hostage situations or other unique crises.
One investigator working on the task force pulled together by the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office reported that he had been told soon after the shooting that two state troopers and two FBI agents had fired. He said the FBI agents approached him later to say they hadn't fired their weapons.
In separate interviews later that night, those two FBI agents and the other three on duty at the shooting scene said they hadn't discharged their weapons and repeated these statements in a second round of interviews Feb. 5, investigators reported.
The second time, the agents insisted that an attorney be present and that they be given an opportunity to "reference their prior statements" if they were going to be asked questions they had already answered in the first interview.
"Of particular concern to all of us is that the HRT (Hostage Rescue Team) operators did not disclose their shots to our investigators or their superiors," said Deschutes County Sheriff Shane Nelson in a prepared statement. "Nor did they discuss specific actions they took after the shooting, which are the subject of an ongoing investigation."
Authorities haven't described those "specific actions."
Nelson said "conclusive evidence" about the agents' conduct was presented to U.S. Attorney Bill Williams in Bend on Feb. 18. The next day, the evidence was shown to Greg Bretzing, special agent in charge of the Portland FBI office. On Feb. 20, agents from the Justice Department's inspector general and the FBI's Inspections Division traveled to Bend to review the evidence.
Nelson and Dan Norris, the Malheur County district attorney overseeing the shooting investigation, then traveled to brief top FBI officials in Washington.
Tim Colahan, Harney County district attorney who asked Norris to handle the shooting investigation, said in a prepared statement that "we will continue to work to determine how the HRT operators' actions played into the events. We reserve the right, as Oregonians, to hold wrongdoers accountable for their actions."
With the indications of FBI misconduct, the Malheur takeover now carries echoes of Ruby Ridge, which resulted in scathing investigations of the FBI and the eventual conviction of an FBI official. The 1992 siege in Idaho started when police sought to arrest anti-government extremist Randy Weaver. His son and his wife were both shot to death during that operation, as was a U.S. marshal.
The resulting investigations into misconduct and mistakes forced the FBI to overhaul its policy for using deadly force and for how it investigates agent-involved shootings. It also prompted changes in the way the FBI deploys the Hostage Rescue Team.
The Justice Department investigated as did the Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Government Information. Both found numerous problems with the FBI's conduct during and after Ruby Ridge. The Senate committee cited a poorly executed search by the FBI for evidence, among other things.
"At least one important piece of evidence – a bullet – was removed and then replaced by FBI agents coordinating the search," the committee found.
"Throughout the course of its many reports, the FBI accorded its own agents undue deference," the report said. "Their stories were accepted at face value and were only rarely subject of probing inquiry."
The committee urged public airings of government misconduct for accountability.
"If our government is to maintain – indeed, even deserve – the trust of the American people, it cannot fear or avoid the truth," the committee said in its final report.
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