2 PG lineups, No main defenders on Lin until like 3 mins left, playing fathead

[AFMadison]

Pop living rent free

[SAGirl]

Martin got benched in the second half because of his putrid off-ball defense. I think Jeremy Lamb scored on him on two consecutive trips for Charlotte. They were intentionally attacking Martin because they know how poor he is on D.

Other than with Kawhi, I don't see how he can be on the floor with Ginobili (2 below average/poor perimeter defenders) or Green ( ty offensive player + ty defensive player = bad) consistenly. He might be a better player (which debatable at this point) and shooter, but Butler was a better fit with better size (6'7", 225 lbs) and better defense. That ship has passed and we have to live with Martin being the fourth wing player, unfortunately.

Butler was more of a 4 for Pop. He really lacked lateral quickness at this stage and git blown by. However, he was terrific on help defense, and off the ball, and that is a major + for a Pop player. I think Pop was forced to play him as a wing bc Simmons blew his chance and lost trust.

I agree with you on how to hide Martin. He's seen time with the starters the most. I think he could be subbed when Mills or Manu are not giving you much offensively bc the two if them are offensive players who lately have been prone to giving us zilch scoring.

[YGWHI]

Other than with Kawhi, I don't see how he can be on the floor with Ginobili (2 below average/poor perimeter defenders) or Green ( ty offensive player + ty defensive player = bad) consistenly. He might be a better player (which debatable at this point) and shooter, but Butler was a better fit with better size (6'7", 225 lbs) and better defense. That ship has passed and we have to live with Martin being the fourth wing player, unfortunately.

Agree. But since KM enters the game for Kawhi, every second unit lineup with him is horrible on D.

[YGWHI]

Yes, it's all very logical and rational.

Logical, rational, and a very expectable issue.

At his age it's likely he gets tired in the last minutes of the game, that's why we saw good first halfs and some weak 2nd's with him losing the ball or missing shots.

[TD 21]

Martin got benched in the second half because of his putrid off-ball defense. I think Jeremy Lamb scored on him on two consecutive trips for Charlotte. They were intentionally attacking Martin because they know how poor he is on D.

Other than with Kawhi, I don't see how he can be on the floor with Ginobili (2 below average/poor perimeter defenders) or Green ( ty offensive player + ty defensive player = bad) consistenly. He might be a better player (which debatable at this point) and shooter, but Butler was a better fit with better size (6'7", 225 lbs) and better defense. That ship has passed and we have to live with Martin being the fourth wing player, unfortunately.

I said, "he didn't actually play well". Sometimes, in 82 games, you need a defenseless scoring guard, who can occasionally come in, catch fire and help get you through games like this. Or they can just keep laboring to score, on the road, against plus .500 teams.

It depends on the match-ups and how the game is going, but Martin can occasionally be on the floor with Ginobili the same way Barry, Mason, Neal and Belinelli could. He's a more natural fit with Green. If either is an issue though, Green can come back in for Leonard late first/third - beginning second/fourth and Martin can come in for Ginobili, at roughly 10, second/fourth.

Martin over Butler was and is a no brainer.

[J_Paco]

Agree. But since KM enters the game for Kawhi, every second unit lineup with him is horrible on D.

Exactly, whatever Manu decides to do, the Spurs need to find another wing player that can defend. For this season/post season, I expect Leonard to play near 40 minutes (38 - 40) a night with Green getting 30 - 35 unless he's stinking it up on offense.

I said, "he didn't actually play well". Sometimes, in 82 games, you need a defenseless scoring guard, who can occasionally come in, catch fire and help get you through games like this. Or they can just keep laboring to score, on the road, against plus .500 teams.

Yes, the Jamal Crawford, Gary Neal and Kevin Martin's of the world are needed at times, but Neal was around when Ginobili was still a serviceable defender. That was 3 years and various lower body injuries ago, meaning Manu can't be expected to create offense and defend the best perimeter scorer (unless it is Jamal Crawford) on the opposing team. And that is not even considering the ramifications for when the Spurs go "small ball" and Martin or Ginobili have to play the 3.

The thought of Ginobili or Martin trying to defend Iguodala, Green or Barnes for 20 or 30 minutes a night in the post season makes me.......

[TD 21]

Yes, the Jamal Crawford, Gary Neal and Kevin Martin's of the world are needed at times, but Neal was around when Ginobili was still a serviceable defender. That was 3 years and various lower body injuries ago, meaning Manu can't be expected to create offense and defend the best perimeter scorer (unless it is Jamal Crawford) on the opposing team. And that is not even considering the ramifications for when the Spurs go "small ball" and Martin or Ginobili have to play the 3.

The thought of Ginobili or Martin trying to defend Iguodala, Green or Barnes for 20 or 30 minutes a night in the post season makes me.......

Like I said, it's match-up dependent and the times it's an issue or if they don't like it in general, there's a simple rotational fix.

Barring injury, Martin obviously won't be playing 20 or 30 mpg in the post season, let alone against the Warriors. You're overrating all of those players individual offensive ability though, especially Barnes. If they want to milk Barnes against Ginobili, in the post, that's a win for the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

Exactly, whatever Manu decides to do, the Spurs need to find another wing player that can defend. For this season/post season, I expect Leonard to play near 40 minutes (38 - 40) a night with Green getting 30 - 35 unless he's stinking it up on offense.

Loo

Yes, the Jamal Crawford, Gary Neal and Kevin Martin's of the world are needed at times, but Neal was around when Ginobili was still a serviceable defender. That was 3 years and various lower body injuries ago, meaning Manu can't be expected to create offense and defend the best perimeter scorer (unless it is Jamal Crawford) on the opposing team. And that is not even considering the ramifications for when the Spurs go "small ball" and Martin or Ginobili have to play the 3.

The thought of Ginobili or Martin trying to defend Iguodala, Green or Barnes for 20 or 30 minutes a night in the post season makes me.......

That scenario right there is not going to happen, which is why despite calls to be benched KA will find a few minutes. It's possible both guys are very situational.