Official 2016 Summer League Thread

[SAGirl]

He played small-ball center in the last game, which I found interesting. He's probably too small to play there now in the NBA. But that seems to project him as a big and not a combo-forward. His shot is interesting. Like right before he was drafted, there was talk that his three was coming along. Then he got hurt and was out the first year. The second year, we hear his shot is horrible. Then he comes over to the summer league and misses everything but looks good doing it. Then last year, he says that his shot is looking good again. And I apparently missed some really awesome jumper he made a couple of games ago. I just don't know what it all means.

He had a pretty fadeway jumper from about ehhhh 8-10 baseline. I really have no idea what the plan is for Pop.

I am going to sidetrack here but its relevant if you follow me. I really didn't see JSimms run a competent PnR with the bigs. He always wants to go and get his. In the dleague I remember watching a game with Boban, by the way the lost it and Jsimms was terrible, inefficient and TO on PnR a whole lot. He never involved Boban. It was one of those things by JSimms that got me /smh. Anyways, he doesn't have that much rapport or court vision or something, but with his hops and quickness he always wants to get his... It prevented all of the bigs, including LJC from getting anything easy at the basket.

Believe it or not, the guy who I did see run a PnR that result in really open dunks and good looks for bigs was our very own inefficient rookie youngster Dijon. He does run a pretty PnR. But he ran them with Stokes if I remember correctly and once with Cady. Problem is when they switched and not trapped and Dijon had to get to the basket to get his, he can't finish like JSimms, but he's got potential to run a meaner PnR with the bigs. Hopefully both develop some chemistry in the dleague and LJC both work on their respective shots too.

[Chinook]

Not an ironclad source, but here's what SB Nation has to say (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/2...-dario-saric):

All about buyouts

Still, players with foreign contracts still get drafted. It can often be a nice value play. If the NBA team wants to bring the prospect over ASAP, and the player is amenable, then the sides will work on a buyout. The dollar figure of the buyout will often be written into the foreign contract, and it may be an NBA-exclusive clause.
NBA teams cannot pay this straight out. League rules govern the cap on the amount of cash a team can contribute to a foreign buyout. For 2014, that figure is $600,000. The player must pay the rest out of his salary. If it's a hefty buyout, that can cause problems unless a player is taken very high in the draft. Any portion of a buyout paid by the team does not count against the salary cap.
The intent of the cap on team-provided buyout funds is two-fold: it levels the playing field between cash-rich and low-revenue teams (much like the salary cap itself), and it deters international clubs from holding prospects "hostage" by making it illegal for NBA teams to pay exorbitant ransoms.
An expensive buyout is the issue most likely to give NBA teams heartburn about drafting an international prospect.

[ElNono]

I don't think you're drawing the right conclusions. If a guy is playing for let's say LK Baskonia and Real Madrid wants him, LK Baskonia doesn't have to let him go. "Demanding to be moved" doesn't mean anything. If you don't have a buyout in your deal, you're stuck there unless you negotiate one. I have no idea why you think otherwise.

Because the player can simply say I won't play for you anymore, he then gets fired, flies to Madrid and signs a new deal. *THAT* is why buyouts clauses were added to those contracts, so teams at least can get compensation when the player wants to move, and you don't have to go through a messy situation like that, which can take time to get resolved. Ultimately, you can't force the player to play for you if he doesn't want to.

[Chinook]

He had a pretty fadeway jumper from about ehhhh 8-10 baseline. I really have no idea what the plan is for Pop.

I am going to sidetrack here but its relevant if you follow me. I really didn't see JSimms run a competent PnR with the bigs. He always wants to go and get his. In the dleague I remember watching a game with Boban, by the way the lost it and Jsimms was terrible, inefficient and TO on PnR a whole lot. He never involved Boban. It was one of those things by JSimms that got me /smh. Anyways, he doesn't have that much rapport or court vision or something, but with his hops and quickness he always wants to get his... It prevented all of the bigs, including LJC from getting anything easy at the basket.

Believe it or not, the guy who I did see run a PnR that result in really open dunks and good looks for bigs was our very own inefficient rookie youngster Dijon. He does run a pretty PnR. But he ran them with Stokes if I remember correctly and once with Cady. Problem is when they switched and not trapped and Dijon had to get to the basket to get his, he can't finish like JSimms, but he's got potential to run a meaner PnR with the bigs. Hopefully both develop some chemistry in the dleague and LJC both work on their respective shots too.

I'm pretty sure it was Murray that gave LJC a nice feed last game, but then he or someone else missed Jean-Charles standing open under the basket after he slipped the screen. The best thing about LJC right now is his quick feet. They are most obvious defensively, as he can switch and recover better than any other big on the team. But they also help him roll effectively on offense. Splitter had the same advantage, though obviously Tiago's superior size and other skills made him a significantly better player. A shot would be nice, but it would also be great to see LJC become a better screener so that he'd be a good PnR big. Rim pressure is important, and there's a long-term need for that in the lineup, especially if it comes with above-average PnR adn perimeter defense.

[Chinook]

Because the player can simply say I won't play for you anymore, he then gets fired,

That's not the way it works. You just don't play, and your contract stays on the books indefinitely. It's amazing that you're trying to argue this point. You don't have to let guys go simply because they want to go somewhere else. If you could, no one would pay buyouts at all.

[ElNono]

Did you read what I posted above? Let me bold you the part that matters:

The agreement, unlike NBA internal rules, contains no anti-tampering prohibition. That is, it does not proscribe communication between a team and a foreign player about future employment while that player is performing for another employer under an existing contract. Presumably, that omission is deliberate and reflects that the strongest justification for tampering rules - the prevention of the existence or appearance of a conflict of interest within a league - does not apply in a situation of inter-league agreement. Indeed, it's doubtful that a persuasive rationale can be supplied for an international tampering rule, which inhibits negotiations during the tenure of a player's contract. And such rule, which shifts, in a way detrimental to players, the line implicitly drawn by existing contract (and tort) law between constraint and freedom to pursue employment opportunities would likely cons ute an an rust violation.

[objective]

He had a pretty fadeway jumper from about ehhhh 8-10 baseline. I really have no idea what the plan is for Pop.

I am going to sidetrack here but its relevant if you follow me. I really didn't see JSimms run a competent PnR with the bigs. He always wants to go and get his. In the dleague I remember watching a game with Boban, by the way the lost it and Jsimms was terrible, inefficient and TO on PnR a whole lot. He never involved Boban. It was one of those things by JSimms that got me /smh. Anyways, he doesn't have that much rapport or court vision or something, but with his hops and quickness he always wants to get his... It prevented all of the bigs, including LJC from getting anything easy at the basket.

Believe it or not, the guy who I did see run a PnR that result in really open dunks and good looks for bigs was our very own inefficient rookie youngster Dijon. He does run a pretty PnR. But he ran them with Stokes if I remember correctly and once with Cady. Problem is when they switched and not trapped and Dijon had to get to the basket to get his, he can't finish like JSimms, but he's got potential to run a meaner PnR with the bigs. Hopefully both develop some chemistry in the dleague and LJC both work on their respective shots too.

Simmons had at least 1 pnr into a dunk with Boban in the regular season. Against Dallas? It's in Boban YouTube highlights of every field goal

[Chinook]

Did you read what I posted above? Let me bold you the part that matters:

The agreement, unlike NBA internal rules, contains no anti-tampering prohibition. That is, it does not proscribe communication between a team and a foreign player about future employment while that player is performing for another employer under an existing contract. Presumably, that omission is deliberate and reflects that the strongest justification for tampering rules - the prevention of the existence or appearance of a conflict of interest within a league - does not apply in a situation of inter-league agreement. Indeed, it's doubtful that a persuasive rationale can be supplied for an international tampering rule, which inhibits negotiations during the tenure of a player's contract. And such rule, which shifts, in a way detrimental to players, the line implicitly drawn by existing contract (and tort) law between constraint and freedom to pursue employment opportunities would likely cons ute an an rust violation.

Yes, that's why I said I don't think you're drawing the right conclusion. You can talk to other teams, but it says nothing about breaking contracts. Jesus, dude. Contracts wouldn't mean anything at all if you could just break them whenever you felt like it.

[ElNono]

That's not the way it works. You just don't play, and your contract stays on the books indefinitely. It's amazing that you're trying to argue this point.

What are you talking about? If you don't work, you don't get paid. Eventually, you get fired. Or the company takes you to court for breach of contract, and extracts whatever they can from you in damages before letting you go. This is basic contract law.

[ElNono]

Yes, that's why I said I don't think you're drawing the right conclusion. You can talk to other teams, but it says nothing about breaking contracts. Jesus, dude. Contracts wouldn't mean anything at all if you could just break them whenever you felt like it.

of course you can break them whenever you feel like it. Are you kidding me? You might have provisions where you have to compensate the other party in such cases, but what are you going to extract from a player? Nothing compared to a buyout, that's the whole point.

[Chinook]

What are you talking about? If you don't work, you don't get paid. Eventually, you get fired. Or the company takes you to court for breach of contract, and extracts whatever they can from you in damages before letting you go. This is basic contract law.

I don't know where you got that from, but it's clear you don't watch the NFL. You just don't get paid. If you're not getting paid, why would the team release you? It makes no difference to them, and they aren't letting you get what you want.

, even in basketball, there are really obvious situations where players aren't allowed to break their contracts. CBA (the China league) players don't get buyouts. That's why they're always available in March. This was really obvious during the lockout year. Do you think Wilson Chandler and Patty Mills stayed over because they wanted to? No. They signed deals that they had to honor.

[Chinook]

of course you can break them whenever you feel like it. Are you kidding me? You might have provisions where you have to compensate the other party in such cases, but what are you going to extract from a player? Nothing compared to a buyout, that's the whole point.

No. If Kawhi went up to the Spurs and told them he was going to Real Madrid, Pop would roll his eyes and say, "Not for at least three years you aren't." And if the Spurs don't want it to happen, that's the end of the conversation. Kawhi would sit out, get no money, the Spurs would get their cap space back, and that would be the end of Kawhi for at least three seasons.

Again, you're being illogical. If players could leave whenever they wanted, there would be NO buyouts at all. If Bertans could have joined the Spurs this season no matter what, they aren't going to through $675k or whatever away to make it happen. No one would. It's not just those clubs being nice. Serious, man. It's strange that you're trying to go down this road. It's very wrong.

[Chinook]

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/N...it-ends-113011

Many NBA players who sought a paycheck abroad hedged their bets during the lockout by signing contracts with teams in Europe or the Middle East that allowed them to return to the NBA if the season was salvaged.
But for the handful of NBA free agents like Wilson Chandler, J.R. Smith, Patty Mills, Kenyon Martin and Aaron Brooks -- who bet against a settlement by signing to play in the Chinese Basketball Association (CBA) -- leaving is not so simple.

With the Chinese season already two weeks old, they are under contract to stay put. In addition to facing serious financial penalties if they leave, these players would not be able to sign with NBA teams. The NBA, as a member of FIBA -- basketball's governing body -- is required to honor international contracts.

[ElNono]

I don't know where you got that from, but it's clear you don't watch the NFL. You just don't get paid. If you're not getting paid, why would the team release you? It makes no difference to them, and they aren't letting you get what you want.

, even in basketball, there are really obvious situations where players aren't allowed to break their contracts. CBA (the China league) players don't get buyouts. That's why they're always available in March. This was really obvious during the lockout year. Do you think Wilson Chandler and Patty Mills stayed over because they wanted to?

lol @ the NFL reference. We're talking inter-league. And the Chinese league doesn't have buyouts, really? How did this happen?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/potenti...003757420.html

Wilson Chandler and Patty Mills might've to put money out of pocket to get out of their deals, that's probably why they stayed. That happens all the time because the NBA restricts NBA teams as far as how much they can provide for such buyouts, which you should know well, since it happened a bunch of times for Spurs players. There's no such restrictions in Europe.

[Chinook]

There's no such restrictions in Europe.

Yes, there is. You can't break your contract. A buyout compensates the team for releasing you. You don't have anything to stand on. Tampering isn't signing a player to a contract. It's discussing terms. Leonard could talk to Real Madrid all he wants, but they can't sign him unless the Spurs release him.

[ElNono]

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/N...it-ends-113011

what does that has to do with what we are discussing? Of course the NBA honors FIBA contracts. That doesn't mean a player can't force it's way out of his contract in Europe. Heck, the NBA allows teams to spend a certain amount into paying buyout clauses. The sole reason for that was so the NBA doesn't go to Europe and dismantles the big teams there, like Madrid or Barcelona by just paying out all the buyout clauses.

But there's no such limitation between leagues in Europe. Madrid can pay the full buyout of whatever player and just get him.

[objective]

Bertans walked away from Partizan with years on his deal. They might not have been paying him what they owed, that would have factored in

[ElNono]

Yes, there is. You can't break your contract. A buyout compensates the team for releasing you. You don't have anything to stand on. Tampering isn't signing a player to a contract. It's discussing terms. Leonard could talk to Real Madrid all he wants, but they can't sign him unless the Spurs release him.

Of course they can't sign him. But there's nothing that prevents Leonard to get out of his contract from the Spurs (other than probably getting dragged in court and paying some damages), and there's no way Real Madrid can pay him more than the Spurs.

[Chinook]

what does that has to do with what we are discussing? Of course the NBA honors FIBA contracts.

An NBA contract IS a FIBA contract, just like a ACB contract is a FIBA contract. They aren't different. No FIBA teams can sign a guy under contract. That includes pretty much every professional team worth anything.

It's obvious as that you're wrong and just don't want to admit it, man. Maybe you're trolling, maybe it's that Italian in you (as you said way back when) that won't let you back down. But you've yet to show any evidence that players can up and leave teams.

[Chinook]

Bertans walked away from Partizan with years on his deal. They might not have been paying him what they owed, that would have factored in

It did:

Article 14 Terminating a contract with just cause A contract may be terminated by either party without consequencesof any kind (either payment of compensation or imposition of sportingsanctions) where there is just cause.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/do ent/affe...s_en_33410.pdf

[raybies]

[SAGirl]

Simmons had at least 1 pnr into a dunk with Boban in the regular season. Against Dallas? It's in Boban YouTube highlights of every field goal

One highlight vs a hundred other times I have seen him run the same play and not result in a good look for a big.

[ElNono]

An NBA contract IS a FIBA contract, just like a ACB contract is a FIBA contract. They aren't different. No FIBA teams can sign a guy under contract. That includes pretty much every professional team worth anything.

It's obvious as that you're wrong and just don't want to admit it, man. Maybe you're trolling, maybe it's that Italian in you (as you said way back when) that won't let you back down. But you've yet to show any evidence that players can up and leave teams.

What the dude, who said anything about signing? I said from the get go that in Europe you can pay a full buyout clause and then you get to sign the player. That's how it works. Ofcourse nobody is signing anybody until the other contract is done, but that's the whole point, you can't force a person to stay indefinitely under a contract against their will. A contract is a mutual agreement and in almost every case has one or more termination clauses: Breach of core obligations, insolvency, impossibility to perform, etc... contract law.

Whatever remedies the team might obtain from the termination of such contract pale in comparison to the value of a buyout, not to mention it prolongs the inevitable. That's *why* there's buyouts.

[ElNono]

Why do you think we even need anti-tampering if nobody can't get out of their contracts? That is the whole point of anti-tampering.

EDIT: well, except for trades, but players can force a trade anyways.

[raybies]

Season	G	GS	MPG	FG%	3P%	FT%	OFF	DEF	RPG	APG	SPG	BPG	TO	PF	PPG
2016 SAS	5	5	24.8	0.466	0.136	0.714	3	28	6.2	1.0	1.8	0.8	4.00	2.20	11.0

Date	Opponent	Result	MIN	FGM-A	3PM-A	FTM-A	OFF	DEF	REB	AST	STL	BLK	TO	PF	PTS
Jul 13	at MIN	L 71-80	28	5-15	1-5	3-3	2	4	6	1	2	0	2	1	14
Jul 12	vs CHI	L 76-79	25	2-10	0-2	0-1	0	3	3	1	2	1	3	3	4
Jul 10	vs POR	W 85-69	22	3-13	2-4	0-0	0	7	7	1	1	0	6	1	8
Jul 09	vs GSW	W 63-61	23	3-11	0-0	2-3	0	10	10	1	3	3	5	2	8
Jul 07	at BOS	L 86-87	25	8-12	0-1	5-7	1	4	5	1	1	0	4	4	21

Dejounte Murray

Not bad, when compared to other top picks like Ingram, who I like to compare him with because of size and similar roles. And by size I mean length and weight. Both are skinny and lanky and roles, I mean they are both being brought along slowly.