I finally understand the hatred.....

[Spurtacular]

....toward Tony. I still think a lot of it is ridiculous or misplaced.

Haven't read the whole article, but the third paragraph explains why players like Irving (and by extention Parker) are disliked. Although, probably not at the irrational level like this place.

Players with offense-only reputations are always divisive, and the score-first point guard is a particularly distrusted basketball archetype, because of how their on-floor inclinations seem to run counter to the nature of the position. In real life, people who hoard things for themselves just seem off. In basketball, the point guard’s primary role is to share.
This is why Irving drives people insane.

Yea, that's why Jimmer gets so much hate.

[YGWHI]

Will Pop bench Parker after a fourth consecutive playoff negative impact?

Most likely? No. He won't.

[J_Paco]

I see why the Kawhi Circle Jerk club has such high post counts. They literally repeat their schtick ad nasuem and have conversations (individually) by themselves.

Sad part is I agree with some of their viewpoints but they are so repe ve and annoying that it doesn't matter.

"Net negative, advanced stats says he sucks, Porker, ing got, , and so on....."

Anyway, good night. And here I was thinking I could coax a legitimate conversation on the matter....

[YGWHI]

Anyway, good night. And here I was thinking I could coax a legitimate conversation on the matter....

You made a thread about Parker's hate, saying you finally understand the reason why people hate him...There is no way to discuss it without put Parker's performances in perspective.

But if you call everyone who posts about Parker's games and stats "fan boy" "Jerk Club", you don't really want to start a legitimate conversation, you only want that people agree with you on the matter.

[skulls138]

This is probably the truth, he was great, but age robbed him of his elite speed and stamina, and having lost that, the other parts of his game are not enough to keep him elite. But whatever, these Tony vs. the World threads are getting old (Manu, Mills, etc).

The best one can hope for is like ElNono said, that he has a good season in his adjusted role. I wish for the same for Manu TBH, who at 39 is approaching the same done level, despite all the Manu fanboys here being the banner bearers for the anti-Tony parade.

I am in the camp that rather hopes for the continued development and improvement of our youth, and that these two stay healthy. I know ppl like to pit them against each other, but they might be around the same at this point and should not be guys that need to be carrying the team. Both are paid a hefty sum, and will make us go bonkers at Pop when they are still overplayed, so whatever. It's best to hope they have a good season and enjoy the show.

Im a glutton for punishment for participating in this thread but I have to give props to your sane posts.

[SAGirl]

There is a big difference between hate and criticism.

I've said before that I don't hate Parker. What I hate is Parker not being willing to accept a role, to adapt his game...

Also, I find it very stupid that people call me hater when I just post "he has been a Net negative player in the last two postseasons"

Unlike, most Parker stans in this thread who called Kawhi re ed at every chance, I never called Parker, Porker/choker/whatver

Tell me why I'm "hating on him."

I don't think you do, and I share your criticism about the guy. But I just don't feel the need to constantly harp on a player's flaws bc no single player is flawless, and frankly you didn't start this thread. I think you are expressing your opinion. To me, the hate crew is the group that has a pathological need to constantly berate the guy. If he's scoring, he's ballhogging, if he's passing, "what does he do?" since he is not a defensive pest, it's a legit question. I don't think a passive Tony helps the team wins games either, specially when the team also starts Danny Green who is not a guy you can ask to be aggressive, and you can't let other team's backcourts rest on defense regularly. If you do, they then have the fresh legs to kill the Spurs in the 4th Q. Games where Danny and Tony combined for paltry scoring were very difficult to win, and we might have lost quite a lot of those. Heck if Tony makes some of the open jumpers he got, the Spurs win the series. The team has a huge problem simply because Tony has declined and he can't do what he used to do, and they don't have anyone better at the moment to take that spot. It's a problem.

But I don't feel I need to be harping on this all the time. I prefer to spend my personal fandom energy following the growth of our young prospects, some of whom are playmakers and hoping for the best for them, bc it is more likely that one of these guys shows up and help, than it is to ask Tony to change.

[SAGirl]

Im a glutton for punishment for participating in this thread but I have to give props to your sane posts.

[SAGirl]

Gregg Popovich is your answer, friend. He (stupidly) decide to play Tony over Corey Joseph and Patty Mills. Tony wasn't either good or heathly enough to play in that series, but Pop just keep trotting him out there.

The players have pride and aren't going to admit when they shouldn't play. The coach needs to be flexible enough to know when that time has come. Pop has in the past but for whatever reason was unwilling to make that needed move.

Tony got destroyed by Paul and the team lost with his piss poor play.

Props, that is the truth.
Pop should be feeling some guilt over that, bc CoJo was balling all the way to the ECF for the Raptors the following season and actually bailed the Choketors of Derozen and Lowry at times. That one series is on Pop. Cojo should have gotten an opportunity.

[TheDoctor]

I wouldn't call them losers, per se. But their finals records, or lack thereof, tell us we've had the right point guard for our system. Parker has been a scorer when we've needed him to be, a passer when the team's needed him to be one, & the team leader (head of the snake) when that's been needed of him. Sure he hasn't been perfect, but nobody has been.

And the team's best penetrator at the time as Erin Barry can confirm.

[SASdynasty!]

Anyway, we shouldn't hate Parker because of he's aging bad. He can't do anything about it.

But we can criticize him because he isn't willing to accept a new role, to be a cog in the machine, sacrificing his high status in order to win.

There are players who are willing to sacrifice everything for the team, Parker never was one of them. Like Lowe said, Pop felt that Manu's selflessness "might accept the bench role more readly than Parker".

Double standard:

"Parker won't accept a new role"

2014: 16.7 / 5.7
2016: 11.9 / 5.3 (on reduced minutes)

2014 Playoffs: 17.4 / 4.8
2016 Playoffs: 10.4 / 5.3 (on reduced minutes)

"Parker doesn't put up the numbers he did in 2014"

----

So, which is it? He won't accept his new role or he doesn't put up the numbers he used to? Pick a side and be consistent.

He passes the ball just as much (on reduced minutes) and shoots much less. Isn't that what you guys were asking for?

Ok, give me the ideal stat-line for Parker. I just want it on record so when he hits it (or misses it) this season, we'll have a place with the recorded expectations. Or would it just be easier to criticize no matter what his stat line is?

10/6 on 50%?
8/5 on 50%?
6/4 on 50%?

What exactly are you wanting from him?

[Diego20]

Pass first point guards like Stockton, Kidd, and Nash are losing point guards.

Score first point guards are winners. Don't know why they have bad reputations, tbh. I guess it's a vanilla thing to do nowadays.

As for the Tony hate... It's only on Spurstalk a place where Manure ?s come to post ty takes

Yeah, Iverson was a winner, he won many rings..

got

[Diego20]

I wouldn't call them losers, per se. But their finals records, or lack thereof, tell us we've had the right point guard for our system. Parker has been a scorer when we've needed him to be, a passer when the team's needed him to be one, & the team leader (head of the snake) when that's been needed of him. Sure he hasn't been perfect, but nobody has been.

When was that? I don't remember

[SASdynasty!]

You can't say this...when Parker's lack of court vision and passing skills make a 39 years old Manu our best playmaker.

Since he lost his speed he isn't the scorer he was, he isn't a true playmaker, nor a shooter, he can't adapt his game to his declining physical condition.

He can play good early in the regular season but he's aging bad and his game sucks in the playoffs, he can't compete against younger, faster, elite guards anymore.

And just for the record, put Nash along prime-Tim instead of Amar'e, and tell me how many rings that "loser" would have won.

Lol, Nash? You mean the guy who couldn't even get to the Finals playing with:

PHX - Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, & Michael Finley
DAL - Dirk Nowitski, Michael Finley, Tim Hardaway, & Nick Van Exel
PHX - Amare Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa, Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neal, Goran Dragic, Jason Richardson, Matt Barnes, & Vince Carter
LAL - Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, Metta World Peace, & Pau Gasol

The dude basically spent a career playing with the All-Star team and couldn't even get to the Finals once.

[Diego20]

at LVPorker and Kyrie "putting their team on their back." Last I checked, it was Duncan/Manu/Kawhi and LeBron doing the heavy lifting for those teams, not the chucking cancerous point guards.

Curry is the only scoring point guard since Magic and Isiah to ring as the first option. And his three-point shooting is a historical outlier. Even then, he's a playoff choke artist who had to be dragged to his only ring by Iguodala and David Lee against a bunch of injury-ravaged teams.

Pass-first point guards are losers, but so are score-first point guards. The bottom line is, in a league where height and length matter more than any other sport, building around a point guard is a bad idea. Any roster whose best player can be neutralized in the playoffs just by having a bigger player guard them is a poorly built roster.

And then there's the real losers like LVPorker and Choke Paul, who have never had first-option talent, don't have a clutch bone in their body, but have the ego of a first option and sabotage their teams because of it.

Another top poster here..

[SASdynasty!]

Brah. He can tell Pop to bench his ass at any time you stupid . He didn't. He IS the sole reason for us losing these past 2 years.

You have a stupid ing imagination of how works.

Parker is the sole reason? Hahaha

It wasn't that Ginobili shot worse than Parker in the Clippers series AND the Thunder series.

It wasn't that Duncan fell off a cliff against OKC and averaged 6/4 on 36% shooting.

It wasn't that Kawhi forgot how to shoot against OKC and shot 29% from 3.

It wasn't that Mills disappeared against OKC and averaged 4/2 for the series on bad shooting, haha wow!

It wasn't that the Spurs decided to play LMA/KawhISO ball and no one (except for Parker of course) even averaged 3 APG in the playoffs. That's insane.

It wasn't that Kawhi shot a combined 13/44 (.295) in games 5-7 of the Clippers series.

---

But keep telling yourself it's all on Parker.

[SASdynasty!]

we say all the time in our mods meeting "can't dabom just stop himself from ty posting" but he never does. No ing sports player is going to EVER ASK TOBe BENCHED YOU HEAD

Hahaha makes me think the dude hasn't ever played compe ive sports, tbh.

[Diego20]

Parker is the sole reason? Hahaha

It wasn't that Ginobili shot worse than Parker in the Clippers series AND the Thunder series.

It wasn't that Duncan fell off a cliff against OKC and averaged 6/4 on 36% shooting.

It wasn't that Kawhi forgot how to shoot against OKC and shot 29% from 3.

It wasn't that Mills disappeared against OKC and averaged 4/2 for the series on bad shooting, haha wow!

It wasn't that the Spurs decided to play LMA/KawhISO ball and no one (except for Parker of course) even averaged 3 APG in the playoffs. That's insane.

It wasn't that Kawhi shot a combined 13/44 (.295) in games 5-7 of the Clippers series.

---

But keep telling yourself it's all on Parker.

TP last two games of the 2013 finals, tell me.. what was his %FG?

[kaji157]

....toward Tony. I still think a lot of it is ridiculous or misplaced.

Haven't read the whole article, but the third paragraph explains why players like Irving (and by extention Parker) are disliked. Although, probably not at the irrational level like this place.



Full article here: https://theringer.com/cleveland-cava...347#.wttqzeahc

Yeah, i agree with your point.

Also it didn´t help that he ed a teammate wife, disappeared on the playoffs for his first 7 years here, and is the only one of the original Big 3 that doesn´t seem to buy on the concept of "Spurs culture".

[SASdynasty!]

TP last two games of the 2013 finals, tell me.. what was his %FG?

Here's an exercise for you...go find everyone else on the team that had 2 poor-shooting games in a row in the playoffs. I've already done it on multiple threads so really all you would have to do is find the work I've already done. Post it when you're finished so you can show yourself that everyone does it. Here's a starting place:

Kawhi Leonard games 1-2 of the 2014 Finals
Kawhi Leonard games 5-7 of the 2015 Clippers series

[SASdynasty!]

Yeah, i agree with your point.

Also it didn´t help that he ed a teammate wife, disappeared on the playoffs for his first 7 years here, and is the only one of the original Big 3 that doesn´t seem to buy on the concept of "Spurs culture".

Tony Parker "disappearing" in the playoffs in his first 7 years:

2002-2008 Playoff Average: 18/5/3, including a FMVP

Get me a list of PGs who have that type of resume for their first 7 years. I'll wait.

[Diego20]

Here's an exercise for you...go find everyone else on the team that had 2 poor-shooting games in a row in the playoffs. I've already done it on multiple threads so really all you would have to do is find the work I've already done. Post it when you're finished so you can show yourself that everyone does it. Here's a starting place:

Kawhi Leonard games 1-2 of the 2014 Finals
Kawhi Leonard games 5-7 of the 2015 Clippers series

What was TP %FG last two games in 2013, I asked. Write it.

[SASdynasty!]

What was TP %FG last two games in 2013, I asked. Write it.

Tony Parker Games 6-7 2013 Finals:

15/6/3/1 on 25%

Now go post what I asked.

[Clipper Nation]

Give it up, got. Mario Chalmers and Chris "RuPaul" Bosh made Porker their with the championship on the line. We all saw it, we all remember it.

[Clipper Nation]

^^ as good as LeKing is he isn't ringing if killa kyrie isn't asserting his will in the latter half of the finals outplaying the mulatto brothers.

Kyrie did play really well as the sidekick down the stretch of the Finals, and he deserves props for that. Still, LeBron was doing the carrying. He dropped 41 in Game 5, dropped 41 again in Game 6, then put up a triple-double on the road in Game 7 and sealed the championship with The Block and The Free Throw. He was un witable in those last three games at a level that no other player in NBA history has ever reached, considering the cir stances and the team around him.

Kyrie was a bust and a team cancer before LeBron returned to Cleveland. It's likely he would have stayed that way without the GOAT holding his hand and establishing a winning culture.

before manure intervened MVParker had wrapped up the a ring in 2013 for the spurs. his play in game 1, and clutch shots in 6 had the le before manure and kiwi choked of course.

at Porker stans obsessing over Game 1 in a series you lost. Newsflash: the NBA playoffs are not single-elimination. Porker choked and disappeared when it mattered most. He let Chalmers outplay him in Games 6 and 7, he let Ray Allen take a steamy wet 6 all over him, and he let RuPaul Bosh revoke his man card with a devastating block in OT.

gotta respect the head of the snake

The only word in that entire phrase that applies to Porker is "snake."

[look_at_g_shred]

Anyways. We can't keep relying on him and LMA to lead the team in scoring past the first round... Some role players gotta step up. Not sure we have one on the roster.