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I'm looking forward to seeing how much Boban clogs the middle and alters some shots.
Was. In last playoffs.
But Kyle will improve...he's versatile and a talented passer. I'd like to see Pop giving him the opportunity to create and play more point-forward
I'm looking forward to seeing how much Boban clogs the middle and alters some shots.
It should be interesting with all the new guys but honestly, it mostly falls on the laps of LMA and KL...and Pop. They need to make the rest of the team feel as if theres a chance, like TD brought the best out of Malik Rose and Avery Johnson. Also Im hoping KA will be a very pleasant surprise because I think he has the personality and skill (except outside shot) to make the parts become a unit. Hes got an upbeat vibe but wonder if that makes him too nice or something thatll bring the team together.
But that's not how it works. He has been put in situations like that and he hasn't excelled. He doesn't always stay in a corner.
He hasn't shown any flash to actually GIVE him more responsibility.
Well, the real Pop was more frustrating.I'm looking forward to seeing how much Boban clogs the middle and alters some shots.
"I want that people take Boban seriously, he's not some sort of and odd thing, he's not a circus freak...That's why I will play him in the most important game of the playoffs and I will make him...O wait."
The problem for the two best scorers is that they were also the two best defenders and rebounders. Pop needed them for defense and had to buy them an ounce of rest so they had legs to close out, which at times LMA didn't have missing jumpshots late in games. They needed help that's the truth.Well, most NBA coaches with two main scorers on their teams, sit just one of them and let the other on the floor with the bench. Like Cavs with LBJ and Irving, OKC with Westbrook and Durant, Warriors with Curry and Thompson...
But Pop is an innovative coach, we had the pleasure of watching how he sat Kawhi and LMA at the same time many minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters in crucial playoffs games.
Just amazing
Not all players improve at the same time/develop at the same way...We'll see.He hasn't shown any flash to actually GIVE him more responsibility.
Respect.
Dayum SAGirl, why no lube? RIP Applesauce's ass
You know if I really, really wanted it would be so easy to troll these dudes. They already hate me and jump on my every post bc I like some guys they don't.
lol
I could start hyping up you know Livio Jean Charles or something. lol (really won't.. but you get the point... they are such easy targets)
Not all Kawhi fans are like that but Apa and Daboom are the whiniest trolls.
Resting players all regular season...to rest them in playoffs too.
The good thing is that Pop was resting 24-years-old-Kawhi in last playoffs for this new season. I wonder how many minutes he will play...29 mpg?
Joke aside, you're right about the burded but the issue was the bad timing.
Why sitting Kawhi and LMA, both players at the same time in game 4? Why sitting Tim, Kawhi, Danny, our three best defenders at the same time in game 2?
Well, that's not Kawhi's decision, it's on Pop.
Is Pop ready to take the ball out of Parker hands? Can Pop spot-up more Parker and still make him look good/useful?
It's likely Parker will run a lot of pick and rolls with Pau in the regular season, then those P&Rs will become ineffective against elite teams in playoffs...we have already seen that movie.
Not sure what you mean by that. The Raptors weren't winning a championship featuring Cojo over Lowry or Derozan, nor the Spurs were going to win a championship by giving Kyle a larger role, who IMO wasn't ready for that last season, over, say, Bobo.
The reality is that since we got Aldrige the Spurs moved into being a top-heavy team. That's why Pop's adjustment, IMO, should've been to play more top-heavy and rely less on what we all knew was a relatively weak bench. I don't really see that changing this season. The way this roster is structured, barring any significant surprises, means Kawhi and LMA have to play a lot more minutes (in the playoffs, I should note, the RS is a different story). One of the two should always be out there with the bench too.
But this is Pop we're talking about, he'll do his thing, and we all hope he figures it out.
WOOT!!! That is the spirit!
I can get behind this. I am going to share one thing with you that should get us excited for the season:
A comment from someone:
I like that. We can't be fricking scared of no one. Though I think the first person Kyle is going to have to lose his fear of is Pop. He was too afraid to get out of Pop's script and get benched and the fear was real. He got benched for entire games for getting out of the script a single instance. That was fine early in the season, but needs to lose that. Manu can teach that for sure. It's fine to have the very young guys in a short leash early but at this point, if you want those same guys to help you win games and you are the coach, that can't fly. I also think that in order for Kyle to be a true point forward Pop has to trust him making choices and Pop hasn't been comfortable trusting youngsters. TBH Murray has a long road ahead or he may simply be soooo wild that even if he wants to play under control he can't. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing but it will be a headache for Pop.
I think even LMA early was afraid to get out of the script and was out there playing tentative half the season. It took Tim getting hurt for Pop to push the heck out of LMA, and he needs to push others too. I look forward to Kawhi's development as a leader. Maybe he's the guy that has to get on things like this, specially with young players, but that remains to be seen.
As for his personality, I frankly don't think Spurs could have found a more spursy young guy if they tried and he's a natural leader. Both understands the game and has the patience to deal with different personalities. He needs to progress in his own game to help the team, but frankly Pop has to loosen up the leash too.
What I mean by that is that Lowry was shooting so bad that CoJo had to play more minutes and take some of their shots. It didn't mean that Lowry or Derozan didn't play, or that the team could spare them, but CoJo did play more and got more shots and they really don't advance as far as they got without him coming through. He really did bail them out in a few games, scoring baskets that kept them in games. Of course they were not going to go as far as they got either unless the other two woke up, but if the Raptors coach doesn't look at other ppl they would have been eliminated earlier in the series.
All this happened b4 my time, but aren't there so many threads out there about how when Tony was a nonfactor shooting in some series as a young player, and Pop was more willing to go to others? Steve Kerr among them, Speedy Claxton? It seems to me he's obviously now relying on his veterans and doesn't hold them to the same standard. If they are not coming through, try something else, someone else for once. Well he did that when it was too late, doesn't it seem like that often. I have read multiple threads in these very same forums about others complaining about Pop not making adjustments and trying other ppl.
good question and I have told myself that the only answer is that Pop simply could not adjust to not having Tim. He was probably more injured than we will ever know, and he really could not score, Pop sat him I think bc of Tim's injury and his difficulty scoring and from there his whole rotation went kaput.
Definitely can't defend Pop on that one. He really didn't balance things. In fact some fans in these very forums were saying he needed to balance the bigs and mix them up. They think it was LMA not wanting to play center, but it's all on Pop. Nothing happens in terms of lineups and minutes without him being the one making those choices. Maybe it's inexcusable.
Because they're not clearly a better option. Kyle wasn't last season, IMO.
Off the top of my head, playing Bonner over Tiago in the Memphis series back in 2011 was certainly a mistake like you mention. But Tiago was already a somewhat seasoned player.
We will just disagree. In game 6 Kyle did score when they went to him. All I am saying is, since no one had it the heck going on in the bench they should have tried him. Pop agreed with you: wasn't ready. The outcome was a loss 4 times, and the outcome would not have changed if they played 3 more games. I think it didn't occur to you that the only guy who could have had physical advantages in the bench was Kyle if he was mismatched with a perimeter player that wasn't Durant. I will give you this one though: Pop didn't expect to have to go to him and they weren't going to give him a leash. I also think as others said, they were not going to risk a potential championship or place that burden on his shoulders and they didn't. For better or worse they went swinging with the veterans (looks like it was for worse). Kyle was great against the Mavericks when he had freedom to take shots and make decisions. Much better than Mills was at doing the same:
I know you watched that game and it happened to end the season. Sure he could make shots, he could set up others. I think the Durant matchup was super tough, and he didn't master it midseason the only time they met, but they could have screened or done things to get him a shot. They didn't. They lost: the end.
By the way this was Simmons against OkC
A lot of this came in garbage time yes.
Also Pop by bringing in Kevin Martin sabotaged both Simmons and Kyle. We will never know, but Simmons ended the season in a much better note than K Martin did and Martin got a shot in game 6 (and was awful).
If last season depended on Kyle Anderson, we had no shot at the ring, period. Losing in the 1st, 2nd round, doesn't matter.
I like to view it differently: last season depended on much more seasoned and talented players, like Bobo, West, Danny, Patty, Manu being at least average, and one or two above average. They weren't, so we didn't win. It happens.
You're also giving a lot of weight to regular season games. They matter up to an extent. If a player regularly stands out, Pop will notice and they'll earn a more prominent role. Happened with Kawhi, Manu, etc. Just didn't happen with Simms or Kyle last season. That's what I mean when I say "he wasn't ready". He just didn't show night in and night out that he earned that larger role. Hopefully this season he does.
It's a good valid point. But as you said earlier (arguing the point on Pop having to ride the two studs he did have), it was evident midseason that against the elite the bench wasn't going to cut it as they were playing. Jsimms hit a very rough patch and him and Kyle were set up to compete with each other anyways when they have very different games. Since neither guy was meant to make a difference in the end, Kyle being the better defender mattered bc none of the guys were going to get a role when it mattered and you'd like a guy who can grab a rebound, get a steal, be solid and not TO the ball if you will only have 5 minutes of said guy, and Kyle did that, even TO Durant a couple of times. He did what was asked as well as he could. But that is it: "what was asked" That doesn't mean he could not have done more, only that they asked him to play a small part.
Many things Pop could have done including mixing and matching the bigs (something many fans argued for), but once Timmy got injured I think if Pop ever really considered that previously, it wasn't an option at that time. As much as I have gone over things I always end up cutting Pop slack based on that. It's why I think maybe Pau doesn't need to be blemish free (the lack of boxing out and rebounding does worry me though, a lot), bc Tim was a shade of himself. Boris also screwed the team up big time. He really only showed up for a handful of games all season to begin with, but besides that, he wasn't taking perimeter shots. Just stopped. He wasn't spacing the floor. Personally I think Dwest didn't do the team a favor, and you have seen that argument from me multiple times already. You are right, it wasn't on Kyle to save a whole mess that Pop put together. And yet games were so close that a few shots could have swung momentum.
Anyways, on to the next one. Season 16-17 I hope goes better for Pop being open minded about new guys. I think just the fact Kyle was there in game 6 and got a shot to share the court with Tim and Manu specially competing in a road game like they did was about as great an experience as anyone could have hoped for him (though he wasn't a rookie, he really was new for the team in being an integral part of it). Anyways, I think Pop does value him a lot, and they did what they thought was best. I do wish he would have been able to help more (as others probably wish to chime on the negative without realizing it's ultimately the team that is screwed up if he doesn't grow up).
I can say that last season was deceiving in many ways. In hindsight, there was a lot of "problems". But going into the playoffs, outside being aware than Tim was in one leg, this is a team that racked up the best regular season record in franchise history, and was a top 5 defensive team going in. Even against OKC, the first game was a complete beatdown, we were up 2-1 after 3 games, and I think most people though after that game we were going to move on. Difficult to say that, even against OKC, you could see the meltdown coming. I didn't like Pop riding West way too much that series, but it's clear now that TD's knees were busted and he just couldn't play.
Thanks for sharing the tweet, KAs got heart and determination Im pretty sure, hes just got an unorthodox style. And I agree that Pop can be overcontrolling. Ive always thought that but obviously is a great tactician too with a whole hand covered in rings so hes definitely the boss. The best I hope for KA is that hes like Kawhi, a steady improver. I believe its in him. I believe he knows that hes unorthodox and he cant always have his way and is working to meet Pops half way. And in all honesty, he needs to do that, he needs a 3pt shot and but more important....to take the @#$%^& shot!!! He needs to do this and more...but not at the expense of what hes already got. Hes a b-ball artist but the object of the game is to win. I know he knows this but can he make it a reality? October is getting closerWOOT!!! That is the spirit!
I can get behind this. I am going to share one thing with you that should get us excited for the season:
A comment from someone:
I like that. We can't be fricking scared of no one. Though I think the first person Kyle is going to have to lose his fear of is Pop. He was too afraid to get out of Pop's script and get benched and the fear was real. He got benched for entire games for getting out of the script a single instance. That was fine early in the season, but needs to lose that. Manu can teach that for sure. It's fine to have the very young guys in a short leash early but at this point, if you want those same guys to help you win games and you are the coach, that can't fly. I also think that in order for Kyle to be a true point forward Pop has to trust him making choices and Pop hasn't been comfortable trusting youngsters. TBH Murray has a long road ahead or he may simply be soooo wild that even if he wants to play under control he can't. I don't know if that is a good or bad thing but it will be a headache for Pop.
I think even LMA early was afraid to get out of the script and was out there playing tentative half the season. It took Tim getting hurt for Pop to push the heck out of LMA, and he needs to push others too. I look forward to Kawhi's development as a leader. Maybe he's the guy that has to get on things like this, specially with young players, but that remains to be seen.
As for his personality, I frankly don't think Spurs could have found a more spursy young guy if they tried and he's a natural leader. Both understands the game and has the patience to deal with different personalities. He needs to progress in his own game to help the team, but frankly Pop has to loosen up the least too.
Yeah well they relearned how to choke. I believe that. They couldnt sustain the belief in themselves when things got tough against the scary GSW and everyone went solo.
Actually what I saw through the season is indeed the problem of Diaw and D.West being undersized. It showed against OKC in the first game of the season and that game against Chicago where you know that the bench was flat out awful. It wasn't a nightly thing but everyone could tell Diaw/West was a problem. Some trolls were calling them turd towers2 from early on, which was probably an exaggeration but was based on observation. Kyle wasn't shooting the 3 and that was also a problem. At times it was Manu actually playing in flashback God mode that saved the bench. That's the truth. Manu's super hot start to the season covered a lot of dysfunction, but it was visible. As the season went on, Kyle started to play a lot better than Diaw. You could say that showed poorly on Diaw, rather than well on Kyle, but it's still the truth and maybe a bit of both.
I kind of felt the way the bench was constructed they needed flashback Manu all the time and that was unhealthy for the team bc it wasn't going to be sustainable long term due to Manu's age and minutes limits. I was whining about it during the season at times. Of course Manu Fan no. 1: you! won't care about that bc Manu played well. However, when Manu played poorly, the guy who showed up wasn't Mills or Diaw or D west. It was Kyle. Kyle showed a lot of composure. Kyle played very well in losses on the road at GSW and Cavs. Almost brought the team back from huge deficits, but they lacked 3 pt shooting to be able to make full come backs. If Kyle's 3 from SL holds, look out league!! All of this is to show you it's actually an asset to have a player in the bench that's not Manu dependent, that's not a product of playing next to Manu and is very capable of doing his own thing regardless. It's an asset. It's like GSW having Iggy but then adding to their bench Livingston. Together it was a lot for other benches. I actually remember an interview early in the season that Manu gave after Kyle had a great game against Memphis with some clutch baskets in the 4th Q and Manu himself said the team needs players like that.
Which brings me to this, we won't agree about him but I wish him the best for the season. He really got out of his s and was playing well on both ends without Manu. Not scoring a whole lot but those games without Manu, he was both getting his own shots and finding others in scoring position. That was nice to see for any team fan bc he's young and that was the first time they asked him to do that in the NBA. He was both a lot more aggressive and better when Pop loosened the leash. For the latter part of the season while Manu was injured, Tony flat out told the press Kyle was playing maybe the best out of anybody else in the team. After a tentative slow start to the season, he averaged 20 minutes the rest of the way. He earned his role and paid his dues. That he went underutilized when everyone was healthy is a shame bc Kyle could generate his own shots and was the only guy with possible advantages in the bench in that OKC series. A more desperate coach would have remembered games Kyle helped win, times he was called and delivered. A desperate Raptors coach called Cojo's number a few times while others got their rhythm. That was my point.
It matters not in the end bc of Tim. Nothing could be done about his injury and that was that. We probably won't see eye to eye on this but it was an interesting discussion and I respect your opinion which is the mainstream bc it's what Pop did, hold him back. Hopefully it's not what he continues to do bc he's got different personnel and I suspect Pop is well aware that Kyle (and maybe others like J.Simms) could do more than they were asked to do bc it wasn't their time.
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