Kyle Anderson isn't good enough...

[BillMc]

This team desperately needs one of its still young(in some cases youngish) veterans to make a leap to a better class of player. If any one of Dedmon, Kyle, or Simmons can do this it would help the team tremendously. But, so far, there are no signs that any of them are markedly improved.

[SAGirl]

Kyle's good enough if he stops beating himself. The Pistons couldn't guard him last night, and he did nothing with that. He missed some shots he'll probably hit most of the time (think he had three that caught back iron and bounced out), and with one or two of those, his line looks fine. But as I said in the game thread, Kyle desperately needs a Murray-esque 3-13 or 4-15 game. Sure, it would be great if he shot better than that, but he needs to show that he's willing to keep firing even if he's cold rather than trying to take a couple of really good looks.

I got one answer in terms of aggression:

I don't know to what degree he has the green light to force things and I don't think that he does. Only Kawhi has that green light and LMA. They are the pronounced scorers in the team. Pau has his and will get his, but even Tony has been reigned in. Everyone else has to look for shots within the offense. What those shots (green lighted shots) look like for Kyle I am not sure yet, but I am guessing contested 3s ain't it. Hopefully it's a progression through the season. I don't think he will be green lighted to take that many shots. Maybe when everyone sits. There was one game last season he took 14 shots and was at 50%, when Kawhi was injured and he played against the Lakers. A situation like that is the only time I see him taking that many shots.

As much as others don't want to hear it, it's a progression for him. He won't jump from a guy who was a blip on the radar offensively to being major in really one offseason.... but hopefully by the end of the season he has gotten there and we do see a progression and maturation through the season that maybe is not there right now. That starts with his aggression, but also requires that we look at what Pop has guys doing. Again the issue of the bench bigs not spacing the floor is problematic for guys who like to drive and I think it's a real concern, the lack of shooting, to the point where Forbes despite two terrible games shooting his first couple of games, kept getting chances, after chances, and may displace a guy I like a lot in Garino.

With Dedmon/Lee, I don't think you can play J.Simms/Kyle at all. Even Murray is problematic bc he also likes to drive into the paint and there are no good shots there for him (was off shooting floaters too in this game).

[sasaint]

If we learned anything of OKC series is that our bench can't already match other elite teams.

And the biggest issue is Pop's continuing to play them like they can.

If he sacrifices depth -signing a big name like LMA, opting for Pau, staying loyal to Parker/Manu-, has to realize he can't play the bench in the same way that 3 years ago when 2nd unit was the best in the league, he must rely more on the starters and hope for the best.

Incisive, sir!

[sasaint]

Might be. Whatever it is, it needs to get fixed. Single-most important thing Pop can do this season.

The single most important thing Pop can do this season is identify a solid/reliable sixth man/occasional starter for the future - whether it be Kyle (as some of us have hoped/expected) or somebody else. (Manu is on his last legs.) But the team will go nowhere with Deadman this season. LMA/Gasol/Lee is not a championship-caliber "big" rotation.

[jermaine]

The single most important thing Pop can do this season is identify a solid/reliable sixth man/occasional starter for the future - whether it be Kyle (as some of us have hoped/expected) or somebody else. (Manu is on his last legs.) But the team will go nowhere with Deadman this season. LMA/Gasol/Lee is not a championship-caliber "big" rotation.

Are you on crack? Lee an Gasol are proven champions! An I'm sure Dedmon will be just fine by rodeo trip! But Kyle, he can be useful I think. Simmons has to go if you ask me. That nicca trash!

[sasaint]

This team desperately needs one of its still young(in some cases youngish) veterans to make a leap to a better class of player. If any one of Dedmon, Kyle, or Simmons can do this it would help the team tremendously. But, so far, there are no signs that any of them are markedly improved.

Deadman should be moved quickly; Ayres would actually be an improvement.

Simmons, at age 27, still commits the same errors, trying to force himself where his skill level cannot take him.

Kyle has lacked a defined role, and that has contributed to his passivity. Out of your three "hopefuls" he is the only one in whom I have any real hope left.

Because they are more seasoned than most rookies, you might throw Lapro and Garino onto your list, too - not immediately, but perhaps before the season is over.

[Chinook]

I appreciate your ardor, SAG, but I disagree. I think Pop has been past "green lights" since the Medium Three era began. Guys are allowed to take any shot they can hit with good efficiency. Danny and Patty can take any three they want. Parker and drive any time he wants. Manu can do whatever he wants. Anderson knows how to score. When he has the ball and is open or in position to attack a closeout, he needs to go for it. I have never seen Pop made at someone taking a open three.

[Chinook]

The single most important thing Pop can do this season is identify a solid/reliable sixth man/occasional starter for the future - whether it be Kyle (as some of us have hoped/expected) or somebody else. (Manu is on his last legs.) But the team will go nowhere with Deadman this season. LMA/Gasol/Lee is not a championship-caliber "big" rotation.

I would not be as keen to write of Dedmon as you seem to be. I thought he was markedly better last game than he was against the Suns last week. Unless he plays elite defense, he won't be much better than Lee. But I don't know that the Spurs have to worry too much about their big rotation this season if everyone stays healthy. LMA/Gasol/Lee is better than what Cleveland rolled out and not too different than what GS had when they won. , I'm inclined to put it on par with what the Spurs had in 2014 and the Heatles had in their championship years.

[sasaint]

I got one answer in terms of aggression:

I don't know to what degree he has the green light to force things and I don't think that he does. Only Kawhi has that green light and LMA. They are the pronounced scorers in the team. Pau has his and will get his, but even Tony has been reigned in. Everyone else has to look for shots within the offense. What those shots (green lighted shots) look like for Kyle I am not sure yet, but I am guessing contested 3s ain't it. Hopefully it's a progression through the season. I don't think he will be green lighted to take that many shots. Maybe when everyone sits. There was one game last season he took 14 shots and was at 50%, when Kawhi was injured and he played against the Lakers. A situation like that is the only time I see him taking that many shots.

As much as others don't want to hear it, it's a progression for him. He won't jump from a guy who was a blip on the radar offensively to being major in really one offseason.... but hopefully by the end of the season he has gotten there and we do see a progression and maturation through the season that maybe is not there right now. That starts with his aggression, but also requires that we look at what Pop has guys doing. Again the issue of the bench bigs not spacing the floor is problematic for guys who like to drive and I think it's a real concern, the lack of shooting, to the point where Forbes despite two terrible games shooting his first couple of games, kept getting chances, after chances, and may displace a guy I like a lot in Garino.

With Dedmon/Lee, I don't think you can play J.Simms/Kyle at all. Even Murray is problematic bc he also likes to drive into the paint and there are no good shots there for him (was off shooting floaters too in this game).

One thing about Pop is that he has consistently gotten on players for NOT taking the open shot. I think your idea of a,"green light" is a little antiquated.

[Chinook]

One thing about Pop is that he has consistently gotten on players for NOT taking the open shot. I think your idea of a,"green light" is a little antiquated.

I think the only person who might have a yellow light is Murray.

[toki9]

Might be. Whatever it is, it needs to get fixed. Single-most important thing Pop can do this season.

Maybe like this?

[SAGirl]

One thing about Pop is that he has consistently gotten on players for NOT taking the open shot. I think your idea of a,"green light" is a little antiquated.

If he's not taking the shots he's supposed to, I actually would like to see Pop get on him, but I didn't see that here, which then places the doubt if the shots he passed were good shots for him or not. I really only saw one 3 he should have taken. The other one had a hard close out by Leuer who is a 6'10" guy who could get to his shot. So yea, I really do question which are his shots. No one was screening for him to be open at the 3 (a point you brought up in terms of screening for shots)... also another reason why one has to look at what Pop has guys doing.

I do know when Dijon is taking shots he's not supposed to be taking bc he gets pulled. I have seen on occasion Pop pull someone for passing up shots, but not this game and I didn't see Pop get on Kyle.

[MaNu4Tres]

. Again the issue of the bench bigs not spacing the floor is problematic for guys who like to drive and I think it's a real concern, the lack of shooting, to the point where Forbes despite two terrible games shooting his first couple of games, kept getting chances, after chances, and may displace a guy I like a lot in Garino.

With Dedmon/Lee, I don't think you can play J.Simms/Kyle at all. Even Murray is problematic bc he also likes to drive into the paint and there are no good shots there for him (was off shooting floaters too in this game).

Disagree with this.

They can play with Dedmon/Lee, but Lee and Dedmon have to be where they need to be. Last night, Dedmon was playing in spot where he has zero value majority of the time -- on the block with his hand in the air calling for the ball. When he's just standing on the block, not setting any screens on the perimeter, of course he will clog the painted area. But even if he was a shooter, the team doesn't have perimeter players that can get past their man off the dribble to create without a screen.

Dedmon needs to focus on setting screens on and off ball away from the basket and implementing the diving action after every screen. The opposing big, Lee, in this case, needs to be in the dunker spot awaiting sprinting back out to the perimeter to set another screen if the first screen set by Dedmon is contested well by the defense. There needs to be constant fluidity in this regard when you have two PnR divers. If they both can do this right, it will actually increase spacing on the weakside and in general.

Having shooting big men won't necessarily do any good because nobody on the bench is good enough ( with exception to Murray) to take their man off the dribble to create. There has to be a screen involved. If the screen is followed by a popping action then the long 2 or three point attempt by a big is the shot the team is likely getting most often in the long run ( not sustainable against great teams). If the screen is followed by a roll or dive to the basket then the open shots will come from better shooters, three point shooters on the weakside, like Mills, Green, Bertans ect. Those are the shots the Spurs need to take more often instead of long 2's or three point attempts taken by a big.

Spurs can play Lee and Dedmon together but they need to be used right in order to optimize spacing and opportunity for our perimeter players. Last night they were not.

[kaji157]

Deadman should be moved quickly; Ayres would actually be an improvement.

Simmons, at age 27, still commits the same errors, trying to force himself where his skill level cannot take him.

Kyle has lacked a defined role, and that has contributed to his passivity. Out of your three "hopefuls" he is the only one in whom I have any real hope left.

Because they are more seasoned than most rookies, you might throw Lapro and Garino onto your list, too - not immediately, but perhaps before the season is over.

Right now the Spurs have 3 players under contract that seem unable to contribute more than they already have. Anderson, Simmons and Deadman.
If we do not start unloading some of them and looking for answers elsewhere the team will be very thin at the bigs rotation and also at the guards.

It´s a really complicated situation, but as it is right now, y would consider cutting some players that have been unable to exceed expectations in favor of new ones who might.

[sasaint]

I would not be as keen to write of Dedmon as you seem to be. I thought he was markedly better last game than he was against the Suns last week. Unless he plays elite defense, he won't be much better than Lee. But I don't know that the Spurs have to worry too much about their big rotation this season if everyone stays healthy. LMA/Gasol/Lee is better than what Cleveland rolled out and not too different than what GS had when they won. , I'm inclined to put it on par with what the Spurs had in 2014 and the Heatles had in their championship years.

If LMA/Gasol/Lee all hold up all season (and if they can all play increased minutes) the Spurs might do okay, but against a team such as OKC the second unit will get bullied without a big who can bring some nasty.

[Chinook]

If LMA/Gasol/Lee all hold up all season (and if they can all play increased minutes) the Spurs might do okay, but against a team such as OKC the second unit will get bullied without a big who can bring some nasty.

But who cares about OKC this year? They might struggle against Memphis in that department as well. But it's not a big deal. Would be mad disappointed if it took more than five games to beat OKC in a series.

[sasaint]

If he's not taking the shots he's supposed to, I actually would like to see Pop get on him, but I didn't see that here, which then places the doubt if the shots he passed were good shots for him or not. I really only saw one 3 he should have taken. The other one had a hard close out by Leuer who is a 6'10" guy who could get to his shot. So yea, I really do question which are his shots. No one was screening for him to be open at the 3 (a point you brought up in terms of screening for shots)... also another reason why one has to look at what Pop has guys doing.

I do know when Dijon is taking shots he's not supposed to be taking bc he gets pulled. I have seen on occasion Pop pull someone for passing up shots, but not this game and I didn't see Pop get on Kyle.

"I'm not looking at Xs and Os..."

Personally, since I read that quote I've been scratching my head. How do you effectively evaluate a player if not in a context and part of the evaluation isn't how well he works in that context?

[sasaint]

Right now the Spurs have 3 players under contract that seem unable to contribute more than they already have. Anderson, Simmons and Deadman.
If we do not start unloading some of them and looking for answers elsewhere the team will be very thin at the bigs rotation and also at the guards.

It´s a really complicated situation, but as it is right now, y would consider cutting some players that have been unable to meet expectations in favor of new ones who might.

FIFY.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I have never seen Pop made at someone taking a open three.

Poor Nazr

[Chinook]

Disagree with this.

They can play with Dedmon/Lee, but Lee and Dedmon have to be where they need to be. Last night, Dedmon was playing in spot where he has zero value majority of the time -- on the block with his hand in the air calling for the ball. When he's just standing on the block, not setting any screens on the perimeter, of course he will clog the painted area. But even if he was a shooter, the team doesn't have perimeter players that can get past their man off the dribble to create without a screen.

Dedmon needs to focus on setting screens on and off ball away from the basket and implementing the diving action after every screen. The opposing big, Lee, in this case, needs to be in the dunker spot awaiting sprinting back out to the perimeter to set another screen if the first screen set by Dedmon is contested well by the defense. There needs to be constant fluidity in this regard when you have two PnR divers. If they both can do this right, it will actually increase spacing on the weakside and in general.

Having shooting big men won't necessarily do any good because nobody on the bench is good enough ( with exception to Murray) to take their man off the dribble to create. There has to be a screen involved. If the screen is followed by a popping action then the long 2 or three point attempt by a big is the shot the team is likely getting most often in the long run ( not sustainable against great teams). If the screen is followed by a roll or dive to the basket then the open shots will come from better shooters, three point shooters on the weakside, like Mills, Green, Bertans ect. Those are the shots the Spurs need to take more often instead of long 2's or three point attempts taken by a big.

Spurs can play Lee and Dedmon together but they need to be used right in order to optimize spacing and opportunity for our perimeter players. Last night they were not.

It would be easier if Dedmon didn't seem like the better shooter of the two. I agree that it could work. But it takes time and high-IQ players. So I'm a little more worried. But it's not like they've had a lot of practice so far.

Someone needs to pull a Splitter and figure out how to use their body off the ball to help the offense, as you mentioned. Of course, they will only work if the perimeter guys are threats beyond the arc, and Anderson and Murray aren't right now. Get Patty in there and make Kyle shoot when he's open, and I think you see better offense from everyone involved.

[sasaint]

But who cares about OKC this year? They might struggle against Memphis in that department as well. But it's not a big deal. Would be mad disappointed if it took more than five games to beat OKC in a series.

Given the state of the league, perhaps you are right. I simply believe we need a reasonably capable player with the size of Aldridge who can and will bring the nasty when necessary.

[sasaint]

Maybe like this?

Yes! Like that! Kills me!

[SAGirl]

I appreciate your ardor, SAG, but I disagree. I think Pop has been past "green lights" since the Medium Three era began. Guys are allowed to take any shot they can hit with good efficiency. Danny and Patty can take any three they want. Parker and drive any time he wants. Manu can do whatever he wants. Anderson knows how to score. When he has the ball and is open or in position to attack a closeout, he needs to go for it. I have never seen Pop made at someone taking a open three.

I have to respect others views, specially bc I haven't followed the Spurs as long, but from what I have seen him do elsewhere, and what he's doing here, it's a different mentality he has entirely, which goes with Pop.

Maybe I do give Pop too much credit for everything, but it's how I have observed it. Only once in a whole season last year I saw Pop pull Kyle out bc of an offensive play. He moved out of position in a sort of hammer play, he wanted to get back on defense while the play was still going on and Patty threw a no look pass while Kyle had moved away from the corner. It was a huge mistake, lack of awareness and attention, which told me two things: his mind was on defense and he didn't care one to score (that was very, very early in the season) and he really caused the team to miss a possession, which earned him a benching for the entire game deservedly. That is the only time I have seen him getting benched for an offensive possession. If his mind wasn't on offense and he only cared to improve defensively, ok. I think that is what they got through his head. Eventually I think they pushed offensively to some degree. He scored more in the latter part of the season than he did the first couple of months for example.

Right now, I am not sure where his head is. In SL he had the mentality to attack. Here I am not sure, which makes me question what his focus is for the season. Maybe green lighting is the incorrect description, but he's not free IMO to take whatever he wants. Maybe he should. Maybe he needs to call a screen... maybe he needs to do more, but since he's not doing it, and I have seen him do it in other situations, I don't think that is his role TBH.

And if it is his role, then that is still on Pop to get on his arse about it behind closed doors I imagine and on team leaders to push him gently to get on with it already.

[MaNu4Tres]

In SL he had the mentality to attack. Here I am not sure, which makes me question what his focus is for the season. Maybe green lighting is the incorrect description, but he's not free IMO to take whatever he wants. Maybe he should. Maybe he needs to call a screen... maybe he needs to do more, but since he's not doing it, and I have seen him do it in other situations, I don't think that is his role TBH.

And if it is his role, then that is still on Pop to get on his arse about it behind closed doors I imagine and on team leaders to push him gently to get on with it already.

It's as simple as this.

In summer league, Anderson is playing against D-League talent and he can be effective against this level of talent with the ball. However, the NBA is a different animal entirely.

In a vacuum, Andersons' offensive value as a player is tied to touches, but against NBA level talent, he simply doesn't have enough athleticism to be effective with the ball against NBA defenders. Sure he can become more aggressive, but it's only going to create tough shots for him and his teammates because he can't turn the corner against a NBA caliber defender (even with a screen he's easy to defend). If you want Kyle to get the ball more often and be more aggressive, then you're going to be in the negatives the parts of the game he's playing in. He's not a play-maker for a playoff team, he's not. He's a role player that needs to be a secondary action option from primary creators after the defense already collapses, but the problem is he's not effective off the ball and he's as predictable as NBA players get in this situation. This is where Bertans has much more value for the role as the back up SF playing off Manu and Patty. IMO

[Raven]

lol bertans.. you're in for a rude awakening.