This team lacks a consistent second option

[MaNu4Tres]

There are many factors on why the team has stuggled to start the season. Not having your starting backcourt doesn't help, the brutal traveling schedule, and fitting in other pieces that are new to the team and playing with line ups we won't ever see when it matters..bottom line we've seen the ceiling and floor of this team in 7 games.

The Spurs 3rd best offensive player IMO is Pau and it's really not close...but instead of making him an offensive focal point he's getting his looks as they come. He's done great shooting the ball but Spurs really could use a boost from his play in the
post..he can draw fouls and double teams and the more he's involved on offense the better he is on defense.

You're asking to lose if you want Pau to get more touches in the post. In fact, post play has become very overrated and is a very inefficient aspect in an offense.

So far this year, Pau is 4 for 13 in post play opportunities, shooting a whopping 31% from plays in the post -- which equals out to .71 PPP ( not good). Last year in Chicago? He shot 80 for 205 in post plays, shooting 40%. That is not good at all. So far this year he's only drawing a foul 13% of the time in such scenarios. If Spurs were to go to him more in the post, the Spurs would suffer because he's terribly inefficient and teams don't have to double -- so weakside stays out on their man. Hardly anyone in the league is worthy of a double team in the post except for maybe 3 players ( and that's only if they get hot).

they don't even double Aldridge, for good reason. His post play is very pedestrian converting at a 48% clip in post plays shooting 11 for 23. That's not great, or good enough to warrant substantial amount of volume. It's also not good enough to command double teams. If it's not good enough to command double teams, then its a play that only really has one option, and that is for Aldridge to create over a decent contest because he doesn't have the foot speed to face his man up and take his guy off the dribble.

That is why initiated offense from the perimeter is so much more valuable, because there's several efficient options that can be manufactured out of it.

Post play is very overrated and very inefficient for the most part.

[Joseph Kony]

LMA was pretty shaky to begin last season was an automatic 20/9 by the end of the season, give him some time, everyone's always panicking after every ing game

[coachmac87]

You're asking to lose if you want Pau to get more touches in the post. In fact, post play has become very overrated and is a very inefficient aspect in an offense.

So far this year, Pau is 4 for 13 in post play opportunities, shooting a whopping 31% from plays in the post -- which equals out to .71 PPP ( not good). Last year in Chicago? He shot 80 for 205 in post plays, shooting 40%. That is not good at all. So far this year he's only drawing a foul 13% of the time in such scenarios. If Spurs were to go to him more in the post, the Spurs would suffer because he's terribly inefficient and teams don't have to double -- so weakside stays out on their man. Hardly anyone in the league is worthy of a double team in the post except for maybe 3 players ( and that's only if they get hot).

they don't even double Aldridge, for good reason. His post play is very pedestrian converting at a 48% clip in post plays shooting 11 for 23. That's not great, or good enough to warrant substantial amount of volume. It's also not good enough to command double teams. If it's not good enough to command double teams, then its a play that only really has one option, and that is for Aldridge to create over a decent contest because he doesn't have the foot speed to face his man up and take his guy off the dribble.

That is why initiated offense from the perimeter is so much more valuable, because there's several efficient options that can be manufactured out of it.

Post play is very overrated and very inefficient for the most part.

You're selling Gasol extremely short...

He hadn't had consistent looks..you're stats say he's 4-13 in the post? That's less than 2 a game and you can expect inconsistent play if you're getting those looks. He needs more opportunities in the post whether he scores or passes. He's not a black hole like LMA is. He was an All-Star player last year and it wasn't because of his defense by any means..he's extremely skilled and can contribute many ways offensively. We didn't pay him 14m to average 9pts a game

[Chinook]

The issue with making Pau the third option is that it forces the Spurs to play very big for large chunks of the game. Not all points are created equal, and having them come from the back court instead would be ideal.

That said, post play is anything but dead. Low-block play might be. But there's been quite the resurgence of big-man paint play over the last couple of years.

[coachmac87]

This isn't about the team lacking a 2nd threat. It's about finding a consistent 3rd is it Patty or Pau?

[coachmac87]

I think when playoff time comes LMA or Pau must be on court at all times playing along side Dedmond..if foul trouble occurs that's where Lee comes into play

[MaNu4Tres]

You're selling Gasol extremely short...

He hadn't had consistent looks..you're stats say he's 4-13 in the post? That's less than 2 a game and you can expect inconsistent play if you're getting those looks. He needs more opportunities in the post whether he scores or passes. He's not a black hole like LMA is. He was an All-Star player last year and it wasn't because of his defense by any means..he's extremely skilled and can contribute many ways offensively. We didn't pay him 14m to average 9pts a game

Not really. I'm bringing facts to the table. Gasol isn't efficient in the post anymore. Hasn't been in years. He was voted an All-Star player last year because of his name and the incredibly high usage he got in Chicago, which he needed in order for his inefficient style of offense to boost his ppg to 16.

He won't get that usage in San Antonio, I said it from the get go. And even if there was usage for him to fill, he'd be a very inefficient option to go to. Those aren't just my stats, those are stats that anyone can look up.

The pick and pop long two is an inefficient style of offense as it is, and that is Gasols main source of offense these days that's somewhat respectable -- even if it's not a great shot for his team in the long run.

[MaNu4Tres]

The issue with making Pau the third option is that it forces the Spurs to play very big for large chunks of the game. Not all points are created equal, and having them come from the back court instead would be ideal.

That said, post play is anything but dead. Low-block play might be. But there's been quite the resurgence of big-man paint play over the last couple of years.

No one said post play is dead. Just saying that the style of offense is very inefficient compared to perimeter initiated offense. If you force Gasol more looks in the post, it won't benefit anything except for Gasols' points per game. Won't benefit the team or wins.

I brought up and proved how inefficient Gasol has been for the past 2 years in the post, and Coachmacs' best response to that is he made the All-Star team last year.

[coachmac87]

Not really. I'm bringing facts to the table. Gasol isn't efficient in the post anymore. Hasn't been in years. He was voted an All-Star player last year because of his name and the incredibly high usage he got in Chicago, which he needed in order for his inefficient style of offense to boost his ppg to 16.

He won't get that usage in San Antonio, I said it from the get go. And even if there was usage for him to fill, he'd be a very inefficient option to go to. Those aren't just my stats, those are stats that anyone can look up.

The pick and pop long two is an inefficient style of offense as it is, and that is Gasols main source of offense these days that's somewhat respectable -- even if it's not a great shot for his team in the long run.

The thread is talking about the 2nd option..well we all know who that is. LMA averaging 18-20ppg

The question is or problem is who's the 3rd? Patty Mills??? Gasol?? Simmons?? Lol

The most reliable IMO is Gasol..he can create from the post whether it's scoring, getting to the line or passing. He's extremely talented and we signed him for his offense and not his defense. He hasn't been involved at all so far and if he's just going to be a shooter then it's a terrible signing..

Gasol needs more looks and involvement in the offense..period

[MaNu4Tres]

The thread is talking about the 2nd option..well we all know who that is. LMA averaging 18-20ppg

The question is or problem is who's the 3rd? Patty Mills??? Gasol?? Simmons?? Lol

The most reliable IMO is Gasol..he can create from the post whether it's scoring, getting to the line or passing. He's extremely talented and we signed him for his offense and not his defense. He hasn't been involved at all so far and if he's just going to be a shooter then it's a terrible signing..

Gasol needs more looks and involvement in the offense..period

Spurs don't have one. It's a collective effort trying to manufacture the best shot possible outside of Kawhi and LA. Gasol is an equal to Patty, Danny, Manu, Parker, ect. Some nights it will be Patty, some nights it will be Danny, some nights it will be Manu, some night it may be Pau.

If you force things to Gasol to try to get only him going, it won't benefit anything other than just his points per game. He doesn't command double teams, and he's not effective in the post anymore. That's not subjective either.

The only times you want to force things Gasols way in the post is if he has an obvious mismatch through a cross match up or switch that lands a small wing or point guard defender on him.

[coachmac87]

I

Spurs don't have one. It's a collective effort trying to manufacture the best shot possible outside of Kawhi and LA. Gasol is an equal to Patty, Danny, Manu, Parker, ect. Some nights it will be Patty, some nights it will be Danny, some nights it will be Manu, some night it may be Pau.

If you force things to Gasol to try to get only him going, it won't benefit anything other than just his points per game. He doesn't command double teams, and he's not effective in the post anymore. That's not subjective either.

The only times you want to force things Gasols way in the post is if he has an obvious mismatch through a cross match up or switch that lands a small wing or point guard defender on him.

I disagree. If you force feed LMA only his ppg will improve.. Gasol is different...he's extremely skilled and he's capable of scoring 20pts more consistent than anyone else not named Kawhi or LMA. Again you're selling Gasol short and the Spurs will be as well if they only want him to shoot 3 balls or pick and pops

[coachmac87]

Name another team that has 2 skilled bigs capable of averaging 15-20ppg in the league?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I dunno. When he plays against anyone with any strength he consistently sucks.

This was true back in the Elite Eight against LSU when Baby Shaq Glenn Ben Davis held him totally in check in the post. Up until that point he had had a great tournament run.

[MaNu4Tres]

I

I disagree. If you force feed LMA only his ppg will improve.. Gasol is different...he's extremely skilled and he's capable of scoring 20pts more consistent than anyone else not named Kawhi or LMA. Again you're selling Gasol short and the Spurs will be as well if they only want him to shoot 3 balls or pick and pops

You can believe what you want to believe, but Gasol is a very inefficient option in the post these days, that is a fact that anyone can prove with a little research.

Alridge, is not an option I love in the post, but he's still significantly more effective than Gasol in the post at manufacturing buckets and fouls.

However, you're right about Gasol being capable of scoring 20, but it will take 25-30 shots to do that if they're all from the post. Not sure if that will help win games.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

At least I have some confidence that Gasol knows that he has to ratchet it up a notch for the postseason. At his age he might be pacing himself, and I'm okay with that.

This is where I'm at right now.

[coachmac87]

You can believe what you want to believe, but Gasol is a very inefficient option in the post these days, that is a fact that anyone can prove with a little research.

Alridge, is not an option I love in the post, but he's still significantly more effective than Gasol in the post at manufacturing buckets and fouls.

However, you're right about Gasol being capable of scoring 20, but it will take 25-30 shots to do that if they're all from the post. Not sure if that will help win games.

Gasol needs more touches down low period. Now how much more is up for debate. We need more ways to create buckets and easy ones at that. You say you don't like Gasol getting touches on the block but I think it could be almost reliable if not more than running PNR with Manu or Patty.

I'm just trying to find ways to get better looks and more people involved. The more involved Pau the better he will be. Spurs didn't sign him to be a 9/6 guy tbh..maybe the spacing of the starting unit with Anderson instead of Green hurts the post play. Spurs strength as a team is their size offensively...the more we impose our will and get teams in foul trouble the rest will follow.

[MaNu4Tres]

Gasol needs more touches down low period. Now how much more is up for debate. We need more ways to create buckets and easy ones at that. You say you don't like Gasol getting touches on the block but I think it could be almost reliable if not more than running PNR with Manu or Patty.

I'm just trying to find ways to get better looks and more people involved. The more involved Pau the better he will be. Spurs didn't sign him to be a 9/6 guy tbh..maybe the spacing of the starting unit with Anderson instead of Green hurts the post play. Spurs strength as a team is their size offensively...the more we impose our will and get teams in foul trouble the rest will follow.

It's not just this year, Gasol was 80 for 205 in post plays with the Bulls a year ago and only drawing fouls 11% of the time. That's shooting 40% in such scenarios. If you think that's effective or efficient that's your choice. I just disagree.

[coachmac87]

It's not just this year, Gasol was 80 for 205 in post plays with the Bulls a year ago and only drawing fouls 11% of the time. That's shooting 40% in such scenarios. If you think that's effective or efficient that's your choice. I just disagree.

Ok well this thread is asking the question of a consistent 2nd threat. I feel we have that in LMA..it's more about the 3rd option IMO. I feel that's where Gasol comes into play..he needs to more involved and Spues can start down low. You can talk about last year numbers with the Bulls that's fine...But who's going to provide most as our 3rd option? Pau, Patty, Parker, Green? Who?

My answer is Pau. What's yours?

[Chinook]

I wonder if Jeff Teague is available. Dude's been awful in Indy, and I think the Spurs actually have the contracts to make it work. Dude in the very least can do some of the things Tony used to be able to do.

[MaNu4Tres]

Ok well this thread is asking the question of a consistent 2nd threat. I feel we have that in LMA..it's more about the 3rd option IMO. I feel that's where Gasol comes into play..he needs to more involved and Spues can start down low. You can talk about last year numbers with the Bulls that's fine...But who's going to provide most as our 3rd option? Pau, Patty, Parker, Green? Who?

My answer is Pau. What's yours?

The team. That's my answer.

There's not a player outside of Kawhi/Aldridge that's good enough in ISOs or in the post to funnel volume to. The third option opportunities need to be manufactured from team inspired basketball. Some nights it will be Patty, some Danny, some Pau, some nights Manu, some nights Dedmon.

[coachmac87]

The team. That's my answer.

There's not a player outside of Kawhi/Aldridge that's good enough in ISOs or in the post to funnel volume to. The third option opportunities need to be manufactured from team inspired basketball. Some nights it will be Patty, some Danny, some Pau, some nights Manu, some nights Dedmon.

Welp..that's not the way it's supposed to be and it could be the down fall if somebody doesn't emerge..just look around the league and the top teams have consistent 3rd options to run offense through.

Cavs-Love
Clippers-Red
Warriors-Thompson
Raptors-Valuncunis

The Spurs? I guess it's the bench? Which won't be good enough. We do have a skilled 7ft who averaged almost 18ppg but I gues 9pts will do. Maybe I'm asking for too much? But we didn't sign him to be a 9/6 guy that for sure I know.

[TheDoctor]

I wonder if Jeff Teague is available. Dude's been awful in Indy, and I think the Spurs actually have the contracts to make it work. Dude in the very least can do some of the things Tony used to be able to do.

After Kawhi, Larry Legend will never negotiate with PATFO again.

All on him tho'

[Chinook]

After Kawhi, Larry Legend will never negotiate with PATFO again.

All on him tho'

I'm sure about that. Bird got EoY for that season in large part because of the Hill trade.

[spursistan]

Carmelo actually enjoys playing the game, Softridge is talented but doesn't have a passion for the game similar to Joe Johnson.

Dude was torn between joining Spurs or Suns .. Repeat: this was dithering on the decision whether to play for/alongside Pop/TD/Kawhi/Manu or the joke of franchise Phoenix been for the past half decade. If that didn't raise a red flag for you from the beginning about his mentlity, nothing will.

I don't think he will be a Spur beyond this contract unless they make it back to the Finals..

[MaNu4Tres]

Welp..that's not the way it's supposed to be and it could be the down fall if somebody doesn't emerge..just look around the league and the top teams have consistent 3rd options to run offense through.

Cavs-Love
Clippers-Red
Warriors-Thompson
Raptors-Valuncunis

The Spurs? I guess it's the bench? Which won't be good enough. We do have a skilled 7ft who averaged almost 18ppg but I gues 9pts will do. Maybe I'm asking for too much? But we didn't sign him to be a 9/6 guy that for sure I know.

That is tied to minutes too.

If you want Gasol to be the third option then you'd have to not only sacrifice efficiency on offense as you'd force him touches in the post ( something he's very inefficient at), but you'd have to sacrifice defense as Dedmon would be demoted significantly in minutes played. Not to mention, you'd be losing the one effective roller in PnRs from the rotation in Dedmon to a degree. I honestly think Dedmon needs more minutes with the starters if possible. It would benefit the offense more than Gasol -- especially when Danny gets back.

All those players you mentioned as third options play over 30 minutes. Gasol has the same role as Duncan did last year, getting 23-25 minutes -- with a lot of those being with Kawhi/Alridge who have their touches optimized when they're on the court.