Rivaldo could socre FK's with both feet; that's rare
But I agree with Brazil, he was better in club than with the NT
Son... Rivaldo is obviously a better player... never said otherwise
for the rest we disagree big time. 2002 Brazil is not in any goat team conversation and yes we can easily argue about the fact Spain 2010 was a better team. Individually ronaldo and rivaldo are better than their Spanish counterparts (Ronaldo is also by far the best player), the rest is pretty much in favor of Spain. Xavi>>Ronaldinho, Spanish defense > Brazil... not even talking about goal keeper. Spain 2010 was stacked bra lead by Iniesta, Xavi
I know it hurts to lose a final so yeah it helps saying your opponent was some kinda of goat team but that's not the case bra
Rivaldo could socre FK's with both feet; that's rare
But I agree with Brazil, he was better in club than with the NT
I used Giroud comparaison for highlighting the short comings of Rivaldo... rivaldo is obviously a better player, smh... Now based on this resume with Brazil where do you put him in an all time Brazilian great teams ? third ? fourth ? fifth ? at the end a great club player and a meh international player
Point taken about copa america but fact remains that Brazil struggled through qualification to WC and was yes a messy team that Scolari and Emerson injury fixed during the tournament. For the rest I don't believe in luck, I stressed out results before and after of Spain exactly for this reason... Spain had a great run with a great generation
on your answers:
1- I am too young to know well Brazil 70 but yeah it is quite a consensus... Before Brazil 2002, only considering winners and runner ups, you have probably no particular order Germany 74, Netherlands 74,78 , Argentina 86, Spain 2010... to name a few
2- this is not my opinion as explained above
Point is Spain did not need to be flexible because this team was able to impose his style to anybody... I'm not sure what more successes she could have been if more flexible or more physical... generation arrived at its peak and won everything possible (2 Euros and 1 WC that's what you can win in the 10 years you have tbh). At the end they did not lose any compe ion because of those shortcomings. They attack and defend by keeping the ball in all situations, that was their way. Son I do hate with a passion Spain but I recognize the greatness of this gen... they were amazing
I agree top to bottom Spain is more talented, more stacked... Brazil was more adaptable now in terms of imposing successfully your play style Spain 10 > Brazil 02. Depends on what you value most, point is a team adapts when they are put into a situation where they have to adapt, Spain philosophy is to be never put in that kind of situation, they make opponent to adapt and they have been quite successful
You tried to use a hyperbole comparing Rivaldo and Giroud, but it's just a really poor comparison overall. Rivaldo is light years ahead of Giroud as a player, in the club or the NT and it's not even close.
Rivaldo had to carry Barcelona during the dark days when they didn't even have money to keep prime Ronaldo and had to sell him to Italy . Rivaldo still managed to lead them to 2 Spanish les, a Copa del Rey and a Supercup facing a totally stacked RM. He won the FIFA's World best player during his Barça time as well. Don't forget that he also won les with La Coruña.
Rivaldo's resume with Brazil includes : a Federation Cup, a Copa America in 99 (best player of the tournament beating peak Ronaldo who's probably the GOAT 9), 2 WC Finals and 1 WC le and he made the WC best 11 both times. He has 37 goals in 75 matches for the Brazilian NT and 8 goals in the WC. That's an average of 0.49, which is a better than Henry, Benzema, Giroud, Trezeguet and Griezmann for the French NT.
I don't see how you can say that he was just a club player. That's just not true. He won everything you can possibly get as a player, team-wise and individually, in clubs or in Brazil. Not making the top 5 list in Brazil is not a shame for a any player. Brazil is stacked when it comes individual talent historically.
I used that hyperbole because both are tall, playing near the surface, are quite slow, good head players, don't create for others, are important for spacing and needs a system adapted to them to play well. Also they are known to play better for their club than NT. That's why I used this comparaison I did not say they are at same level, I explicitely said Rivaldo is better now if saying way way way better is enough to please you, I have no issue with that.
yes, a great club player
well you compare his average goal with France but I guess Brazil historically scores more than France so kinda biased. I have seen 35 goals in 75 games (close enough) which is indeed better than the guys you named but significantly worst than Papin (to take a French example) or Romario (to take a Brazilian one) for instance.
Rivaldo club > Rivaldo NT
yes Brazil is stacked indeed but Rivaldo would not be on a first or second France all time great list either
The only thing that Giroud and Rivaldo have in similar is the fact that they're lefties and it stops there. I'm pretty damn sure that you absolutely have the wrong picture about him. To me it seems that you're talking about a totally different player. Giroud is a CF and Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder. Rivaldo was not slow at all, especially in the open field. Rivaldo was much better dribbling the ball and he had elite 1st touch and control.
Rivaldo played 14 games in the World Cup. He had 8 goals and 4 assists in 14 games. Just for sake's of comparison, Zidane had 5 goals and 2 assists in 15 games and both assists came in dead ball situations. (a corner and a freekick).
Again, Rivaldo was part of the best XI in both WCs he played.
Rivaldo was never known for playing better for his team than for his NT at all. Ronaldinho was known for that.
Since you have BR connections, just ask any of your Brazilian fellows how they feel about Rivaldo in the Brazilian NT. In terms of importance in the past 20 years, he is probably a top 3 along with Ronaldo and Romario. That's how good he was for the Brazilian NT, especially in the WC. Most Brazilians feel he is one of the most underrated Brazilian players of all-time.
It's not biased. Even if Brazil scores more goals historically, Rivaldo was an attacking midfilder not a striker and he had to "compete" for goals with Romario and Ronaldo and it's not an easy task at all.
Honestly, when it comes to football history in clubs and NT, there aren't many french footballers that I'd take over Rivaldo. Zidane and Platini and that's it.
Reading you, you could think dude was a #10 or something. He was not a #9 for sure but he played forward as far as I remember for La corogne and the Barcelona, he is more a 9 and half than a midfielder. In 2002 midfield was held by ronaldinho, kleber and silva... Rivaldo supporting ronaldo mostly on the left side. After Barcelona, I have no idea he went to play for some greek teams... He was not spectacular at all on dribbling and I fail to remember him not being slow ...
Zidane had 5 goals, 3 in finals not really comparable... 8 goals, half of them blow out wins against china, costa rica and such.
I have BR connections and they apparently are not fans of Palmeira or Sao Paulo because their feeling is not quite the same than you, 20 years is quite a long time and I'm pretty sure he is not a top 3 since 86
that's because you probably don't know enough french players
He wasn't a pure 10, but he was definitely not a 9 either. He was better dribbling than Giroud, my point here. Mostly simple cuts and changing directions, not something fancy like Dinho ou Ronaldo. As I said, not slow at all in the open field.
You're just going from 8 to 80. Zidane scored 3 important goals sure but 3 goals from dead balls . You're forgetting the 4 assists (quite impressive from someone who can't pass like you said) and the fact that Rivaldo saved Brazil's ass in the playoffs against Denmark in 98 and against Belgium and England in 02. So no Rivaldo, no WC Finals and no WC le either.
Your friends are probably too young to appreciate Rivaldo and 20 years is 96 tbh, not 86. Yes, he is a top 3 in terms of importance for the Brazilian team since 96.
Actually I do know a lot of French players. I just wonder who besides Zidane and Planiti has a case over Rivaldo. I simply fail to see it.
Son I agree with you 100%, especially the bolded. That's pretty much the way I feel about him as well.
Brazil just seems to be out of his element here tbh
Also GOAT flopper against Turkey tbh
I'm happy to see you agree with me... 9 and half, second striker... if your point is to say he can run fast when he has time to launch the motor... agreed
not sure how it is kind of negative for Zidane to have scored on dead balls tbh... zidane is a pure 10 not a striker so yeah his goals are definitely more impressive than Rivaldo's in wc
ya 96 sorry... still not top 3 unless you consider rivaldo > neymar
I know Brazilian can be very arrogant when topic is football but come on son... so a dude who does not make the 4th or 5th all time team is better than whole french all time ? you must be kidding... French football is obviously small fry compared to Brazil but we have had some great players... Henry, Canto, Tigana, Fontaine, Kopa, Giresse, Rocheteau, Youri,... just taking strikers and midfield dudes
he has had some great flops during his career... true
To close the topic, I'm sorry I hit some Brazilian nerve with Rivaldo/Giroud, that was not my intention. I was just comparing some charasteristics both have did not know he was so beloved....
In all honestly in all football conversation I'm having for about 10 years in Brazil, I never felt Rivaldo was dat dude, I am having a lot of yeah great striker and meh with Brazil except Palmeiras fans tbh... very different when you talk about Romario for instance, people I know love Romario. From what I saw of him during his years playing for Barcelona and greek teams he is not your traditional Brazilian talented guy more a solid blue colar talented to score the ball and I was never impressed by his perf with NT.
well duh
It's not negative, it's a fact. Scoring on finals is great, but he did it on dead balls. He only had 2 assists during 15 games in the WCs. For a pure organizer, that seems underwhelming especially when you consider the fact that Rivaldo had twice the assists of Zidane playing 1 less WC as an attacking midfielder. For a guy that can't pass like you said it seems very good tbh.
You tried to imply that Rivaldo only scored against garbage teams in the WC, when it's not a fact so i had to debunk it. You said : "good club player only known for scoring, average talent other than that but sub par performance with Brazil, not sure dude even scored a relevant goal for Brazil during a WC. "
He scored key goals against Denmark (2 goals), England and Belgium, all in the playoffs and without him Brazil does not win .
Not yet son. I think Neymar is better than Rivaldo, but he hasn't reached Rivaldo's level with the "Amarelinha" yet. Depends on what Neymar does in the next WC. Olympics was a great feat, but it's not the main NT and Fed Cup is not enough to pass Rivaldo for now.
Arrogant ? C'mon son don't play this lame game. I'm arrogant because I fail to see how Giroud and Rivaldo are comparable ? hahahahaha !
Imagine If i tried to compare Hulk with Henry. That's how bad your take was tbh.
You named a lot of guys, but who among them has a legit case over Rivaldo ? Maybe Henry, but it's highly debatable. But Rivaldo wouldn't even sniff France's 2nd all-time team according to you and i'm the arrogant guy
I think Brazil is just trying to troll you tbh
Brazil is half about jks and half serious. I'm too.
He has some French pride and I know it just reading the way the defends french players, especially TP on the Spurs forum.
It's ok. We can move on here. I have nothing but respect for the French NT. Rivaldo would start in their all-time 11 though
son, what? what has neymar done tbh? I don't see him carrying barcelona like rivaldo (messi is carrying that team..) and I don't see him winning major les with brasil or carrying the NT against tough compe ion. Imo neymar << rivaldo tbh, neymar is just the only star player in brasil right now in this crazy marketing era.
Btw henry has absolutely no case over rivaldo, such an overrated player, just like ibrahimovic.
son you trippin'... After 2002 goat now neymar not like < rivaldo but <<
Neymar is more talented than Rivaldo and it's not even remotely close. He carried Brazil more than Rivaldo ever carried Barcelona. Under Dunga period, Brazil was 100% dependant on Neymar, dude had a flue and the whole country was stopping breathing. Now in terms of career of course Neymar is not there yet but he is 24 y/o. Now we can compare both players at 24 y/o. At this age, Rivaldo was winning some les in his domestic league and carried Brazil to bronze medal with, in this team, 23 y/o R Carlos, 19 y/o Ronaldo, Bebeto etc... give me a break. Ronaldo carried this his whole career after that. At same age Neymar is winning La Liga, champions league and the gold medal at the olympics ... and btw Neymar is doing fine when Messi is not playing too so yeah go ahead with your neymar << rivaldo
On Henry whatever man... I fail to see how he is overrated but each with his own agenda I guess
Ney couldn't penetrate Atletico's defense w/ TWO top 5 Ballon d'Or finalist as his striking partners.
Griezmann is better that Neymar, tbh. (He proved it playing in the same league w/ inferior teammates)
Im fine with that bra griezman > Neymar > rivaldo
If only Griezmann could convert penalties at better than 50% rate.
Ney has to carry Barfa w/o McBitey & Missi before he could be mentioned in the same breath as Rivaldo.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 12-09-2016 at 08:46 PM.
At 24 y/o rivaldo was carrying , he could not even carry the most stacked team in olympics history
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