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the past couple games he has been hitting that midange jumper...lets give the dude credit...smfh
Keep working on that jumpshot, please.
the past couple games he has been hitting that midange jumper...lets give the dude credit...smfh
Wrong thread
He played well in the 1st half tonight, nothing shiny, but controlled... then he got thrown in the doghouse for some reason...
Well its irony. He sucks. Hes a failure. Hes dumb. Trade
i blame JILLY for his demise
He plays with a lot of energy and is disruptive defensively. He can't shoot at this point... not very well.
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only in' shoot..
His hustle will help now that Danny is injured. I thought the energy he played with changed that game... despite some shots he missed, etc.
Plus minus is for re s
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only in' shoot
Give me elite defense every game over streaking shooting that is on once every 3 games w terrible D. Any. Day. Of. The. Week.
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only in' shoot
Patty is good for zero to 2 good shooting nights in a series, while being a scarecrow on defense 4 to 7 games in a series.
Shoot and/or be smarter when he has the ball. I think he could be like Simmons last year, where in the right matchup he'll see a big jump in minutes vs the kind of time hes been seeing because of his defensive ability. But his decision making has to be on point in the playoffs
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only in' shoot
Watching him play, Murray has gotten appreciatively better since the start of this season. I feel like he’s even tightening his handle, which is one of my biggest gripes with him (dribbles too damn big). His nose for defense is great, his rebounding is unbelievable for a pg, and his reads on offense are improving (he had a sweet pass to LA in traffic today). The shot will come over the next few seasons.
The reality is that, while it feels like we have a logjam at guard now, next year could see the Spurs without Manu and Green. It’s good that the Murrays and Forbes of the world are taking nice strides this year, with White (and hopefully Paul) in the wings.
Murray is all that is wrong with the nba. Started in early 2000 letting ty high volume scoring outweigh skill. Seen nba scoring leaders shut down in local tournaments
Murray played very well today. He made an impact even without scoring. I think the issue is that even without Murray getting many minutes, SA is still a top 3 defensive team. Pop is searching for offense which Murray does not provide at all.
So even with TP/Mills and other guys that provide very little defense compared to Murray, SA is still an elite defensive team (and that is with Kawhi not playing anywhere close to his defensive potential).
Until Murray starts to do more on offense he will struggle to get minutes. Mills, even with his terrible defense and mediocre offense (to this point) he has more gravity on offense still. Pop is searching for offense and offense is very clearly the issue with this team.
Kid, you have all the physical tools, just stop shooting jumpers like 20 foot floaters. Put your two goddamn hands on the ing ball and shoot it with confidence.
He's not playing 1 on 1 though - his terrible shooting affects the spacing for everyone. Patty or Danny for example, even when not shooting well, have more gravity and everyone gets more room to operate. For as long as defenses treat Murray like Tony Allen he's not going to be a net positive player and thus will only get spot minutes. Neither defense nor rebounding are problems for the Spurs this season.
When he learns to shoot and to be more in control though, he'll be awesome. It's easy to see why they like him so much. It's just going to take time. He's already shown improvement from last season and it'll be a gradual process, not an instant leap.
According to nba.com, Dejounte Murray is the leader in defensive rating of the entire NBA at 94.3:
He is also the leader in net rating of the Spurs at +9.5:
Some of that is probably due to him playing a lot against 2nd and 3rd string quality players. But it's still impressive. And recently it seems like the moment he enters the game, the Spurs immediately go on a run.
Last edited by Jsmythe; 01-03-2018 at 05:09 AM. Reason: Indent links
Im quite aware its not 1 on 1. Ive only been watching the game for 26 years. Murray is not a net negstive.
Some more Murray stats.
On the floor in 675 mins: Spurs are a +9.5 PP/100.
Off the floor in 1149 mins: Spurs are a +0.2 PP/100. https://t.co/qxJjfFXLTC
And no he doesnt effect spacing depending where he is in the action on offense. For example, when Murray is the post entry passer on thr strong side of the floor, Murray usually cuts baseline strongside and rubs off LA or Kawhi in the post ..if the defender doesnt follow him all the way through, its usually a lay up for DeJounte..unless the defender follows him all the way to weakside corner 3 area. If the defender half asses or turns attention to strongside at anytime, Dejounte is pretty great at cutting to the basket.. Murray is also really effective responding to recovering defenses from the triple threat position off the catch and getting to the line. Mills is pretty easy to defend when he puts the ball on the floor in any cir stance responding to recovering defenses.
Sure, Mills in a vacuum provides good spacing, but most of the time with 2nd unit he's handling the ball in PnRs ( leads the team in PnR ball handling possessions). So he's not providing any spacing in this dynamic. Also, there's other ways Murray remains highly effective on offense where he creates gravity for the Spurs offensive arsenal ( elite offensive rebounding/crashing glass from weakside/ creating more possessions, getting out in transition and putting pressure on the defense sucking them into the paint in transition as he finds open 3 point shooters -- something he's becoming great at, great at cutting off ball when his defender isn't respecting him, great at getting to the line -- 5x better than Patty in this cir stance).
Start looking deeper into the game, and you can see why he's been the most impactful player the Spurs have right now at the PG position ( not saying much because the PG position has been thr biggest weakness on the team in years -- Mills & TP have been net negatives for years now ).
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 01-03-2018 at 07:12 AM.
I'm not disagreeing with most of what you've said. What I disagree with is that Murray isn't a situational player at this moment. All of his improved on/off and net ratings have come since he's been used mostly in bench line-ups. His net rating with the starters is significantly worse than Patty's, for example as per cleaningtheglass.com, and the effective line-ups for Murray have been with mostly bench units and specifically with Manu.
That said, due to constant fluctuation of minutes, roles and players this season, I'm not entirely convinced the individual net ratings have enough context so far to draw conclusions from. Last season's best net ratings were all bench players. I maintain that Murray's game doesn't mesh well with the starters at this point and that him being used as an energizer off the bench against other benches is the best way to utilize him until he develops a shot or is able to break down a defense by penetrating. Bench runs faster than the main unit and it suits him better.
I'm not proposing or saying he should start yet ( I think that's coming eventually depending how much more he progresses). What I'm implying or saying is that he should be playing over Patty with the 2nd unit and having stints with LA/Kawhi lineups. On both sides of the court overall, he's more impactful than any point guard on the roster.
The only way the Spurs have a chance to reach a higher ceiling than years past is to throw Murray in the fire and give him a permanent role with hopes he keeps progressing by May and June. That's the only way Spurs have a chance to win. If Spurs continue to roll out TP and Patty as the main fixtures at the PG spot, it will be another predictable 2nd round exit. And some fans are fine with that because Tony and Patty give the Spurs a floor that gives the Spurs a 1st round win (yay).
Great first post tbh
Then we're pretty much on the same page.
One interesting wrinkle is that Dejounte and Patty when played together have unreal positive numbers, as well as DJM-Patty-Manu line-ups, so I'm not sure Patty should be the one to be buried on the bench so that Murray gets more minutes.
Yeah, we've been talking about having Murray play the two forever now. Glad to see people are finally catching up to the idea.
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