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That's bc the west is now that all the talent went to two teams
However, I do agree with you that if you were to tell me heading into the season that Kawhi would have only played 8 games by January and that Ginobili would be forced to become our second best player because of so many injuries, I would have figured that the Spurs would be a 6th seed in the West at best.
So being a third seed we could be doing a lot worse.
That's bc the west is now that all the talent went to two teams
Western playoff teams are actually better than they've been the past two seasons and better than every season sans 2015 since the mid-2000s. Spurs have just had an easy schedule thus far. The T'Pups are in the same situation as the Thunder having to integrate several important new parts and, similarly, are beginning to play better. Unless Kawhi is back to last year's Kawhi soon I expect the Spurs to drop down to the fifth seed.
They should..
A year ago, I probably would have said ‘give the guy his money’ but we’ve crossed a line to the point where his unavailability for large chunks of the season is a fact of life—a trend that has more than entrenched itself in the total player package of Kawhi..
You just can’t pay 35-40 million going forward for a guy who is a lock to miss 15+ games each season for every in ailment and malady in the book (a virus, an inflammation, a tendinitis in the wrist, shoulder, knee, ear, eye, stomach..) despite being monitored and put on workload restriction from day one.
On the other hand, and out of pure self-interest for him and his client, his agent is going to push for the Supermax because he knows there is no guarantee his career doesn’t go the way of Derrick Rose or Grant Hill at any moment.
I think PATFO should test the waters this summer on his extension and see what’s the overall thinking of his camp. We can’t afford to get KD-ed here..
i dont think you can afford not to pay him. if he walks, the spurs have about a zero chance at contending for several years. they're a good enough roster where they won't be picking top 5 anytime soon, and aren't going to be acquiring mvp caliber players in free agency
it may be a risk committing to kawhi, but there is no other option if the team hopes to compete at all in the near future. you play the cards you're dealt.
The Spurs are losing money despite being a fringe contender and hanging out under the tax line. If Kawhi gets a supermax deal and then the cap contracts, you could have Leonard taking up almost half the cap space in four years. That's disturbing, even before getting into the injuries.
The Spurs might not be able to afford to not pay him if they want to be a contender, but handing him a blank check might not be something they can afford, both in terms of their bottom line and their pursuit of being a contender.
Whether worth it or not due to durability issues, Leonard will absolutely expect the super max out of principle. He also has the leverage since he can easily command that damn near anywhere, while they have no way of replacing a player of his caliber. If they didn't immediately offer it, he'd either request a trade or at minimum they'd risk doing irreparable damage to the relationship.
The trade was Nurkic and '17 1st for Plumlee and '18 2nd, plus cash. Spurs could have inquired, but it's unlikely Nuggets choose Dedmon over Plumlee. Even though they're comparable, the latter has more cache.
Yeah, this is a rare case where they need to swallow hard, eat Lauvergne's contract and sign a credible third center option.
Please. The same issues they've had post '14 have only been exacerbated as the game has continued to evolve while they've mostly thumbed their nose up at it. At this point, it's probably best they get healthy and either lose to Thunder or get steamrolled by Rockets, so they can no longer pretend with this roster and are forced to address the PG situation and archaic style in the off season.
Forget about Chandler being bought out; he has another season left on his contract.
Spot. On.
they have zero chance of contending for anything for a long time if kawhi walks. so if contending is a requirement, there is no other option than to hand him a blank check
Yep, people who want to go all-in on rebuilding seriously underestimate how hard it is to rebuild a le contender, and how long it could take in a small market. When it happens, it is going to suck a lot, and probably for a while.
The grass isn't always greener, and Tim Duncans and Kawhi Leonards don't just grow on trees.
But that only matters so much. The team can't literally hemorrhage money just to have a chance to win a le. Beyond Kawhi walking, he has to be available to play.
well, none of us here are rooting for Holt's bank statements. we want the team to win, and right now for better or worse, kawhi is the only avenue there
With or Kawhi, the rest of January is a soft schedule with @ Toronto and home against Cleveland being the only two games that seem like likely losses. Not to look to far a head, but I could see us going 10-2 and starting February with a 38-16 (.703) record.
Yes, but you aren't paying for anything, as aren't most fans given the empty seats. We don't have the financial stake for anyone to care what we want. Even disregarding that if you hand Kawhi a blank check, and you probably kiss contending goodbye anyway. Kawhi and extras would have been a lottery team this year. The team needs money to build a contender, whether that is through signing a big name or keeping home-grown guys long-term.
This new supermax is by far the scariest thing to come out of CBAs in a long time. Timing could not be worse. It will sink a lot of teams and may cause a huge labor fight next time around.
If the spurs don't extend the super max to him, there wouldn't be any financial advantage for him to stay?
A regular max from the Spurs is already more than other teams can pay. The supermax was just to stop it from being close.
The Spurs are my favorite team but outside of Spurs I follow the Hornets since they are my home team. For many years the Hornets have tried to rebuild through the lottery but still haven't been able to land a superstar. The Hornets haven't gotten out of the first round in 16 years but have gotten bounced a few times in round 1 since then. Spur fans should follow small market teams such as the Magic and Hornets to get an idea of how hard it is to build a contender.
Complete bull . The Spurs were a top 2 team last year when healthy and are top 5 at worst right now.
So, if you were a betting man, do you think the Spurs extend Kawhi the super max? And, if not, what are the ramifications? Sure, they can still offer more than anyone else at the regular max but wouldn't Kawhi take it as an insult and likely want to leave or force a trade?
I hear what you say about haemorrhaging money. Fans should enjoy these good teams while they can. I think the glory days won't go on too much longer. (Hope I'm wrong)
I agree very much with you Bill. Even fans of the late era like myself have been spoiled from watching what I consider a good/sometimes great team... meltdowns and all... I am appreciative of them.
Some old school fans are just appreciative of having watched Tim's entire career (my loss... also not having watched the big 3 in their primes).
Very interested to hear Chinook's take.
I don't know. I think so long as Kawhi can return from this injuries like nothing happened, playing at an MVP level like he was last season he is worth it.. but I do see Chinook's point that a small market team will be squeezed trying to put talent around him.
It's an interesting topic for sure.
Despite of losing cash I don't see how the Spurs could afford not to hand Kawhi the supermax. He's a top 5 player. Top 5 players get paid, despite of missing games. He's only missed 4 out of close to 100 playoff games as a Spur and that's what's important. It'd be even worse going into full rebuilding when it comes to butts on seats. If anything, Kawhi guarantees some cash flow and they'll need to pay someone anyway. So what if Kawhi's making $40mil in a couple of years? This is better than having Gasols and Pattys combining to make the same amount.
Even if the cap stops rising all teams will have to face the challenge of building a contender around a supermax player. GS and Cleveland are already deep into tax and it's not a given LeBron even stays there. Houston will have to pay Paul, Capela and Ariza if they want to keep the team, let alone improve it. Toronto are over the tax and will look to salary dump players, not to add. Only Boston have done quite well in aligning contracts for the future, thanks to Brooklyn's picks, but they'll also need to give Kyrie the (regular) max after next season. If the cap stops rising the teams will adjust.
The bolded part is a great point. I am sure his agent will bring that up.
I don't think the team is going to play hardball with Kawhi. They'll likely tell him honestly why they are offering the deal they are, and he'll either take it or ask for me. I do think when push comes to shove, the team will give Leonard what he wants. I doubt there's going to be anyone arguing about Leonard's status due to his contract one way or the other.
Of course, it really depends on how this year goes. He comes back on Thursday and then tears it up en route to an MVP-caliber second half to the season and playoffs, then he gets the Durant-max and the rest is dealt with on the back end. But if he remains hobbled the whole year, I could see SA in the very least wanting to wait until later in the next season to give him the deal. I don't think there's a limit on when he can sign such an extension.
Golden State is literally willing itself to keep going despite the tax. If the cap crunches, I expect even them to fall back. Obviously Cleveland is losing money hand over fist, which is why they probably won't be too upset if James walks again. I don't think people really understand how bad the cap crunch can be. We're talking about situations where teams can end up with guys taking up half the cap and 40 percent of the tax threshold. And they can't "adjust" because those deals will already have been signed. Kawhi has one of the worst timings on his third contract possible. Maybe Davis only has a worst one but at least when that one comes, NOP will likely have a better idea what the next TV deal will look like.
The bubble we're looking at right now is actually kind of amazing. You have a generous deal combined with a league with very little intrigue, with resting "scandals" rearing their ugly heads. Combine that with the general cord-cutting trend, and it's no wonder the league is desperately trying to find other avenues to use to sell their content. I don't think the NBA has been a worse buy since Bird and Magic started playing. There's a very real possibility of the cap dropping into the low 90s or even high 80s. If that happens, I fully don't expect there to be basketball in 2021-2022 without the NBPA agreeing to revise extant contracts.
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