Stein: Spurs Have Emerged as as Trade Suitor for Avery Bradley

[DPG21920]

We were winning when Patty was starting and porker wasn't playing.

Again, context. Also what does that have to do with you claiming “everyone” is struggling when that is obviously not true.

[dabom]

Glad Dejounte Murray is starting. Glad to be one of the revolutionaries of these forums.

[dabom]

You're one of the better posters here.

[r0drig0lac]

DM is 6’5. He could take guard the SG’s and AB take on the PGs

I think not

[Dre_7]

I wasn't for giving up a first round pick but I wouldn't have thought twice about a Green for Bradley swap. Younger and able to guard a premium position and seeing Lou Williams sign for less than a full MLE makes me think Bradley could have been had on the cheap.

I feel ya, but LAC weren't taking a straight up trade it looks like. If they were I wish it would have rather it been for Patty.

[Dex]

Again, context. Also what does that have to do with you claiming “everyone” is struggling when that is obviously not true.

Arguing with Patty's boyfriend is not going to get you anywhere.

[TD 21]

Think the trade talks went down like this:

Spurs: "We're interested in Bradley."
Clips : "We need a first round pick for our trouble."
Spurs: "Bradley for Mills and a first?"
Clips : "We don't want to tie up our books, how about Green because he is also an expiring?"
Spurs: "We're not interested in giving up a 1st and Green to acquire Bradley,"

*Gets reported as the Spurs are offering/ willing to give up Green and 1st for Bradley.

I have to believe that the Spurs weren't considering moving Green for Bradley- even though Bradley is 3.5 years younger, Green is better and probably isn't going to command as much in FA as Bradley would. I think PATFO have probably liked Bradley for a while and kicked the tires on acquiring him but balked when their initial offer got countered.

Think Spurs trepidation with Green is, in this market, he's probably not worth Mills money, but if they don't initially offer that or don't altogether, it'll be difficult to for him to reconcile a similarly aged, less valuable and more easily replaceable player getting that a year earlier; particularly considering the solid he did them in '15.

[Chinook]

Also where are people getting this idea that Bradley is some exceptional PG defender from?

[KDKSpurs24]

Also where are people getting this idea that Bradley is some exceptional PG defender from?

People have posted several videos but I guess you didn’t bother to look at them so you wouldn’t be wrong. He’s very capable and I’d know he would have turned it up even more if he was on a contender. He would have been very motivated.

[Chinook]

People have posted several videos but I guess you didn’t bother to look at them so you wouldn’t be wrong. He’s very capable and I’d know he would have turned it up even more if he was on a contender. He would have been very motivated.

Everyone looks great in highlights.

EDIT: Like this one:



It implies he was a good defender last year when he was terrible to the point that Boston paid a second to dump him.

[Chinook]

More importantly, the highlights don't show that is Bradley is primarily a PG defender.

[coachmac87]

Everyone looks great in highlights.

EDIT: Like this one:



It implies he was a good defender last year when he was terrible to the point that Boston paid a second to dump him.

Boston had their eyes on the bigger prize...

Stop hating on Bradley so much lol. He ain’t coming here so exhale

[spurraider21]

More importantly, the highlights don't show that is Bradley is primarily a PG defender.

thats why his value plummeted when teams figured out he cant really play PG and just became a small 2

[KDKSpurs24]

Everyone looks great in highlights.

EDIT: Like this one:



It implies he was a good defender last year when he was terrible to the point that Boston paid a second to dump him.

No. The earlier videos someone posted was from this year in Detroit of him chasing Curry around like a madman. He is very capable of not allowing a PG to get a shot off. And no it wasn’t because he was terrible. It’s just because he wasn’t in their future and they probably didn’t feel like he fit because they were already bringing in Hayward and they had Brown and Tatum who have very high potential. And Smart was cheaper so he was the better option to keep. Obviously.

[Chinook]

No. The earlier videos someone posted was from this year in Detroit of him chasing Curry around like a madman.

Hounded Curry by allowing 27 points on 11-17 shooting

He is very capable of not allowing a PG to get a shot off.

In a given possession, yes. On the aggregate no. Hence my comment about highlights. There are vids making Klay Thompson seem like an All-World defender.

And no it wasn’t because he was terrible. It’s just because he wasn’t in their future and they probably didn’t feel like he fit because they were already bringing in Hayward and they had Brown and Tatum who have very high potential. And Smart was cheaper so he was the better option to keep. Obviously.

It was because Smart is a better defender and the team preferred to not get worse by dumping him to keep Bradley. Remember that Smart isn't in the Celtics' long-term plans either. They turned out to have made the correct decision, because they are the top defense in the league this year. I do love how you list Brown and Tatum as reasons Bradley was dumped when they took back Morris, who plays the same position as Tatum and Hayward. They made an even worse longjam by paying to dump Bradley, and if Gordon hadn't gotten hurt, who knows if Morris would have even been in the rotation by this point?

[KDKSpurs24]

It was because Smart is a better defender and the team preferred to not get worse by dumping him to keep Bradley. Remember that Smart isn't in the Celtics' long-term plans either. They turned out to have made the correct decision, because they are the top defense in the league this year. I do love how you list Brown and Tatum as reasons Bradley was dumped when they took back Morris, who plays the same position as Tatum and Hayward. They made an even worse longjam by paying to dump Bradley, and if Gordon hadn't gotten hurt, who knows if Morris would have even been in the rotation by this point?

Yeah because at the time they had to make the contracts work and that move made it possible. Plus he has 2 more years of $5mil only when Bradley was more plus had to be paid after this year. Gordon Hayward plays the 2 and 3. Morris plays the 3-4 and of course you’d want to add more size rather than keeping the 6’2 guy.

And it doesn’t matter. Curry scored most of those early but when he locked in in crunch time Steph didn’t get comfortable and Pistons won. That’s all that matters is the W. If you don’t think Spurs could have utilized his defensive talent in a great defensive system already then you have no confidence in Pop. At the end of the day I’d rather him than Patty.

[Hoops Czar]

Also where are people getting this idea that Bradley is some exceptional PG defender from?

Advanced defensive stats have flaws, as do all statistics without proper context. It's difficult to isolate the contributions of a single player from his four teammates on the court, like perhaps playing alongside a terrible defender in IT3 (?) and there are plenty of things that do not show up in the box score, so you should not take defensive sabermetrics as the holy grail.

Also, Bradley's on ball defense is top notch and frustrating for opponents but he doesn't really contribute many steals and blocks for a top tier wing defender and as a result, won't measure particularly high in DRPM. Whereas, Danny will get a few blocks and steals, miss his defensive assignment 10 times in a row, foul a 3pt shooter in the act and get told to STFU by his head coach and will still be made to look like a world class defender. The world we live in.

Wait, you're the one who said Bruce Bowen's defense was overrated as . It's starting to make sense now.

[Hoops Czar]

In a given possession, yes. On the aggregate no. Hence my comment about highlights. There are vids making Klay Thompson seem like an All-World defender.

You could literally apply this to any player that's ever played basketball. What a generic response. I could show you a video of Alexey Shved (out of the league) lighting up Kawhi Leonard. That doesn't make Leonard a bad defender.

[KDKSpurs24]

You could literally apply this to any player that's ever played basketball. What a generic response. I could show you a video of Alexey Shaved (out of the league) lighting up Kawhi Leonard. That doesn't make Leonard a bad defender.

[Chinook]

Advanced defensive stats have flaws, as do all statistics without proper context. It's difficult to isolate the contributions of a single player from his four teammates on the court, like perhaps playing alongside a terrible defender in IT3 (?) and there are plenty of things that do not show up in the box score, so you should not take defensive sabermetrics as the holy grail.

Also, Bradley's on ball defense is top notch and frustrating for opponents but he doesn't really contribute many steals and blocks for a top tier wing defender and as a result, won't measure particularly high in DRPM. Whereas, Danny will get a few blocks and steals, miss his defensive assignment 10 times in a row, foul a 3pt shooter in the act and get told to STFU by his head coach and will still be made to look like a world class defender. The world we live in.

Wait, you're the one who said Bruce Bowen's defense was overrated as . It's starting to make sense now.

There's only so many ways you can excuse a career of being a net-negative player. Eventually, it doesn't matter what the "eye-test" says if your team keeps getting outscored with a player on the court for a decade.

RAPM actually had Bowen as a good defender, so that tanks your entire argument. And Bruce's D was totally overrated as it compares to Green and Leonard. It's also overrated when people try to say he shut down Nash and Dirk, who scored at their average rates and efficiencies against him. Bruce had a number of great defensive outings for sure, but he wasn't superlative compared to modern defenders.

[Chinook]

You could literally apply this to any player that's ever played basketball. What a generic response. I could show you a video of Alexey Shved (out of the league) lighting up Kawhi Leonard. That doesn't make Leonard a bad defender.

This is a ty counter when that was exactly my point. You can make any defender look great by showing his highlights. Bradley has ultimately not shown to be effective over his carer. Showing him stealing the ball or getting blocks doesn't change that.

[Chinook]

Yeah because at the time they had to make the contracts work and that move made it possible. Plus he has 2 more years of $5mil only when Bradley was more plus had to be paid after this year. Gordon Hayward plays the 2 and 3. Morris plays the 3-4 and of course you’d want to add more size rather than keeping the 6’2 guy.

Hayward isn't a two. Even if he were, Stevens is the kind of guy who plays three PGs over playing two SFs and two bigs. I don't know exactly what you mean by that last sentence, but if you think that Morris is legit better than Bradley, then I can't even see why you're arguing. Avery is 6-2 no matter where he goes. His lack of value wasn't unique to Boston.

And it doesn’t matter. Curry scored most of those early but when he locked in in crunch time Steph didn’t get comfortable and Pistons won. That’s all that matters is the W. If you don’t think Spurs could have utilized his defensive talent in a great defensive system already then you have no confidence in Pop. At the end of the day I’d rather him than Patty.

The whole game matters, not just crunch time or whatever. It was just a stretch where Curry shot poorly. Golden State still scored 19 points in those seven minutes, which is a pace for 130 points in a full game. It's just weird to act like that was the pivotal stretch when the game was already in double-digits by the time Steph came in.

And I'd've been fine trading Patty for Bradley. But it would have been mostly because of the contract. Sure, if Bradley had been in the rotation, I would have wanted him to do well. But I wouldn't want the team to re-sign him or anything crazy like that.

[HarlemHeat37]

Isolation defenders have far less impact in today's NBA compared to top team defenders, which is proven in virtually all on/off numbers..if the sample size is large enough to include different teams, coaches, teammates and schemes, yet your team is always better on defense when you're on the bench, what else can you say?

[Hoops Czar]

There's only so many ways you can excuse a career of being a net-negative player. Eventually, it doesn't matter what the "eye-test" says if your team keeps getting outscored with a player on the court for a decade.

Danny green is a net negative player this year (-1.2); Danny was a net negative player in last year's playoffs (-13.4). Do you need me to paint you a picture or can you summon your Ivy league degree and draw your own conclusions? and before that, Tim Duncan. There's only so many ways you can excuse a career of being a net-negative player without being paired with two ultra elite defenders who can erase all your mistakes. Serious question.. Should Danny Green be obligated to give have of his all defensive team honors/awards to Leonard and Duncan?

Avery Bradley won all defensive first team honors in 2016 and second team honors in 2013. So much for a career net negative player.

RAPM actually had Bowen as a good defender, so that tanks your entire argument.

No Chinnok, my argument was you calling Bruce Bowen's defense overrated.

And Bruce's D was totally overrated as it compares to Green and Leonard. It's also overrated when people try to say he shut down Nash and Dirk, who scored at their average rates and efficiencies against him. Bruce had a number of great defensive outings for sure, but he wasn't superlative compared to modern defenders.

Confirmed!

Also, don't act like you didn't say Bowen wouldn't have made it in today's NBA.

[SAGirl]

Isolation defenders have far less impact in today's NBA compared to top team defenders, which is proven in virtually all on/off numbers..if the sample size is large enough to include different teams, coaches, teammates and schemes, yet your team is always better on defense when you're on the bench, what else can you say?

Which is why Kyle rates so well. Individually he may get burned but on team defense he's very smart, helps when he has to, plays passing lanes with the long arms he has, plays angles, and knocks balls loose, deflects balls etc + rebounds... He has worked hard on individual defense but team D is where he's best.