Stein: Spurs Have Emerged as as Trade Suitor for Avery Bradley

[Spurs da champs]

Only issue with Bradley is that his height, given Rudy & Kawhis injury problems, Danny needed to stay, him and Anderson are only wing defenders on team ATM.

[Chinook]

Danny green is a net negative player this year (-1.2); Danny was a net negative player in last year's playoffs (-13.4). Do you need me to paint you a picture or can you summon your Ivy league degree and draw your own conclusions? and before that, Tim Duncan. There's only so many ways you can excuse a career of being a net-negative player without being paired with two ultra elite defenders who can erase all your mistakes. Serious question.. Should Danny Green be obligated to give have of his all defensive team honors/awards to Leonard and Duncan?

So much ass-hurt starting radiate off you. Green's having a fine defensive year statistically. Don't confuse relatively inept offensive numbers for poor defense. He's in the top 20 for all guards, wings and combo-forwards in pretty much every defensive category. Bradley, not so much. Now if you want to say he wasn't all that great last year, I could understand. It was a career achievement award more than anything else. He still graded out well.'

No Chinnok, my argument was you calling Bruce Bowen's defense overrated.

No, your argument was that Bowen didn't grade out well statistically and that as a result you can't just use stats to grade defenders. That was put to bed by Bowen actually having good defensive stats. Then you edited your post to toss in a ty ad homenim about my hating Bowen. That isn't an argument as much as it's a fallacious distraction.

Also, don't act like you didn't say Bowen wouldn't have made it in today's NBA.

You keep going down this rabbit hole. I doubt I said exactly that without more context, but he definitely would have had to be a different player than he was. The best he could hope for his to be Andre Roberson. Three-and-D players have to do more than just sit in the corner now, and the trend away from physical play on the perimeter makes playing Bowen-style defense problematic.

[Atl Spur]

Hounded Curry by allowing 27 points on 11-17 shooting



In a given possession, yes. On the aggregate no. Hence my comment about highlights. There are vids making Klay Thompson seem like an All-World defender.



It was because Smart is a better defender and the team preferred to not get worse by dumping him to keep Bradley. Remember that Smart isn't in the Celtics' long-term plans either. They turned out to have made the correct decision, because they are the top defense in the league this year. I do love how you list Brown and Tatum as reasons Bradley was dumped when they took back Morris, who plays the same position as Tatum and Hayward. They made an even worse longjam by paying to dump Bradley, and if Gordon hadn't gotten hurt, who knows if Morris would have even been in the rotation by this point?

I respect most of your points normally but you are dead wrong if you think Danny is better than Bradley!

[dabom]

I respect most of your points normally but you are dead wrong if you think Danny is better than Bradley!

Danny is better you dumb .

[MannyIsGod]

Which is why Kyle rates so well. Individually he may get burned but on team defense he's very smart, helps when he has to, plays passing lanes with the long arms he has, plays angles, and knocks balls loose, deflects balls etc + rebounds... He has worked hard on individual defense but team D is where he's best.

JFC are you his mother or just his stalker?

[dabom]

JFC are you his mother or just his stalker?

[Atl Spur]

Danny is better you dumb .

Cute....... you’re low hanging fruit.

[weeks]

JFC are you his mother or just his stalker?

"mother"

anyone who puts "girl" in their username is suspect; no exceptions

[tholdren]

Danny green is a net negative player this year (-1.2); Danny was a net negative player in last year's playoffs (-13.4). Do you need me to paint you a picture or can you summon your Ivy league degree and draw your own conclusions? and before that, Tim Duncan. There's only so many ways you can excuse a career of being a net-negative player without being paired with two ultra elite defenders who can erase all your mistakes. Serious question.. Should Danny Green be obligated to give have of his all defensive team honors/awards to Leonard and Duncan?

Avery Bradley won all defensive first team honors in 2016 and second team honors in 2013. So much for a career net negative player.



No Chinnok, my argument was you calling Bruce Bowen's defense overrated.



Confirmed!

Also, don't act like you didn't say Bowen wouldn't have made it in today's NBA.

You use net rating
you is stupid

[SAGirl]

Only issue with Bradley is that his height, given Rudy & Kawhis injury problems, Danny needed to stay, him and Anderson are only wing defenders on team ATM.

I don't think Spurs put Danny in play. That was probably the Clippers. It had to be Mills. And I understand why the Clippers would decline that trade too.

[SAGirl]

JFC are you his mother or just his stalker?

Just have to counter all the hating... I still always come up short.

[SAGirl]

"mother"

anyone who puts "girl" in their username is suspect; no exceptions

Heh. I dOn't have kids to begin with.
I am fine with anyone who suspects everything.

[Hoops Czar]

So much ass-hurt starting radiate off you. Green's having a fine defensive year statistically. Don't confuse relatively inept offensive numbers for poor defense. He's in the top 20 for all guards, wings and combo-forwards in pretty much every defensive category. Bradley, not so much. Now if you want to say he wasn't all that great last year, I could understand. It was a career achievement award more than anything else. He still graded out well.'

Exactly...

Danny will get a few blocks and steals, miss his defensive assignment 10 times in a row, foul a 3pt shooter in the act, get benched for Bryn Forbes and get told to STFU by his head coach and will still be made to look like a world class defender statistically speaking

David West (tops all PFs), Kyle Anderson, Dejounte Murray and Lonzo ball are elite defenders statistically. Let's just ignore how unplayable West was at times for the Spurs (defensively) and we should throw out the window that anyone who actually watches Spurs games can see firsthand how many times Murray misses his defensive rotations/assignments or molests his opponent into submission because Boxscore sniffing is more fun and it holds up to scrutiny over time.

I think what you said about Avery Bradley's defense actually sums up Danny Green in a nuts ....

In a given possession, yes. On the aggregate no.

No, your argument was that Bowen didn't grade out well statistically and that as a result you can't just use stats to grade defenders. That was put to bed by Bowen actually having good defensive stats. Then you edited your post to toss in a ty ad homenim about my hating Bowen. That isn't an argument as much as it's a fallacious distraction.

No, it wasn't an argument, it was a statement made by you several times in various threads calling Bowen overrated. Don't make it more than it is. I can't remember the exact thread but some comments you made resonate more than others. At one point, you said something to the affect Bowen would be a borderline liability in today's NBA. Is Tony Allen a liability in today's NBA (last 4-5 years)? You said Bruce wouldn't even be a plus defender against good opponents, a poor man's Tony Allen. Are you saying defensive specialist are outdated? Bruce didn't have Green's athleticism, but he was as aggressive, tenacious and an "in your face" as a defender you'll ever find. In Green's case, just a simple pump fake takes him out of the equation.

Bowen may not have stopped Kobe, Nash or Dirk from getting their number but in many cases, he made them do it on a lot more shots making them far less efficient than against most other defenders. And for crying out loud, Dirk is one of the greatest international shooters in NBA history and had 5 inches on Bruce. Dirk could just shoot over the top of him but he still managed to get a hand in Dirk's grill just about every time. Just because a player makes the shot doesn't mean poor defense was the culprit.

[Biggems]

Avery Bradley, a former Horn, Hook 'em......I like the player, but no way in do I choose him over Danny. Danny is a freak on D and can cover 3, maybe 4 positions. Also Danny knows the system, is humbled by Pop already, and is cool with playing for less than his market value. I am happy the trade never happened.

[Chinook]

Exactly...

You keep getting yourself twisted up. Green had a fine year last time statistically, so the argument you tried to make that I should think Green is bad because of his stats was wrong. It was a ty argument for a lot of other reasons, but it being based on bad info is a good enough one.

I think what you said about Avery Bradley's defense actually sums up Danny Green in a nuts ....

You literally mean the opposite. On the aggregate, Danny's a great defender. His detractors point to individual possessions to make a case but ignore the rest of the possessions where he plays well. The exact opposite was true for Bradley, but people are growing wiser and aren't as inclined to let heuristics guide their thinking as much as they used to.

You are what your numbers say you are, eventually. As Harlem pointed out, Bradley has a gigantic and diverse sample size at this point. There's no logical argument that would explain why his teams are better defensively without him except that he's not that good. The eye-test means nothing if the guy scores anyway, or if the team as a whole suffers from how you're defending. It's like saying someone can't shoot because of their shooting motion even though they take a lot of shots and hit them at a high rate.

No, it wasn't an argument, it was a statement made by you several times in various threads calling Bowen overrated.

Really twisted. To simplify it for you: You made an argument about Bowen's stats being bad, which calls into question how useful stats can be when judging defenders. That argument was wrong, because Bowen grades out pretty well statistically. Then, to cover your own ass, you edited your post (and were kind enough to make it with an "EDIT" just so there wasn't any ambiguity) to specifically try to discredit my rebuttal to your argument on the basis of me being down on Bowen. That is an ad homenim and is fallacious. I could think Bowen were Jesus himself and still know that your original argument was based on bad info. That I think he's overrated has nothing to do with whether stats can tell a reliable story. It's just a ty diversionary tactic.

Insofar as your desire to debate Bowen has infected this thread, Bruce played a style that isn't necessary to be effective on that end. Neither Green nor Kawhi defend by getting chippy with their men. They don't have to push and shove to get guys off spots. They only use their hands when they intend to get a deflection or obscure the view of their men. Most of the great perimeter defenders avoid the type of contact Bowen did because stars are much smarter at using physicality to their advantage. Rather, the refs are more likely to call those fouls, and the stars know to use them. That SA is a great defensive team despite pretty much never pissing their opponents off demonstrates that the aesthetically pleasing defense played by Bowen and in some cases by Bradley isn't all that effective anymore. It's completely dependent on the ref swallowing the whistle, and it gives the opposing team something to grasp onto psychologically.

[SAGirl]

Hops zar with the big time troll tbh

[TD 21]

http://www.nba.com/article/2018/02/12/morning-tip-mailbag-feb-12-2018?collection=writer/archive/david-aldridge#/

(I’m told the Avery Bradley-Danny Green talk before the deadline was overblown, but can’t help but think we haven’t heard the last of AB to SA. He seems a natural for the Spurs’ system at both ends, and one wonders what his value on the open market will really be in July at the easiest position to fill/replace on a team.)

[SAGirl]

hmm interesting.. a potential summer acquisition. The cap vexes me though. I don't expect them to have room, unless Rudy opts out and doesn't want to come back.

[Chinook]

They probably have interest as a replacement for Green. The most they're going to be able to give Avery is the MLE, so they'll likely get a cheaper starting two if they do it that way.

[rjv]

They probably have interest as a replacement for Green. The most they're going to be able to give Avery is the MLE, so they'll likely get a cheaper starting two if they do it that way.

letting green go to make room for a max offer to kawhi?

[TD 21]

hmm interesting.. a potential summer acquisition. The cap vexes me though. I don't expect them to have room, unless Rudy opts out and doesn't want to come back.

With a dearth of cap space, most of them being re-building teams, his desire to play for a winner and their lack of flexibility and inability to acquire a markedly better talent (short of a Walker trade), think he opts out and signs a 2 year contract for the MLE again, this time without a player option. That would give him a slight bump in pay and an extra year of security.

The only thing I could see preventing this, would be if they offer Leonard the super max and he either declines or requests a trade and is traded to Celtics for Brown, Tatum, 1st. The latter would basically replace him and they'd probably just go younger at that point.

[Chinook]

letting green go to make room for a max offer to kawhi?

I doubt it, but maybe. I think if Green leaves it won't just be the Spurs pushing him out the door. He may not have taken two years of trade rumors well right after he gave up money to stay.

[MaNu4Tres]

Hopefully Spurs can shed Mills this summer.

Sixers could be a potential trading partner if they move on from Red and if they whiff in Free Agency. They'll have plenty of money and Patty would fill a need in the lockroom and on the floor.

I imagine Gasol could be pretty easy to move if they can get a FA to commit -- possibly even the Lakers taking him on for a year if they want to preserve their space for summer of 2019.

Spurs could open up 24 million in cap space if they get rid of those two. They could agree in principle to the new deals to Green, Anderson, Bertans ( using their bird rights) and wait til they utilize the 24 mil in space on other UFA(s) before re-signing Green, Anderson, Bertans.

[TD 21]

^ Nets for Lin and 76ers for Bayless (both only have 1 year remaining), are more than likely the best bets/hope.

Notable free agents: Dedmon, Monroe, James, Noel, Barton, Ariza, Paul, Bradley, Jordan, Caldwell-Pope, Lopez, Randle, Thomas, Evans, Cousins, George, Johnson, Re , Davis, Favors.

James, Paul, George, are obviously not happening and outside of Bradley, they probably won't have interest in anyone else.

[MaNu4Tres]

^ Nets for Lin and 76ers for Bayless (both only have 1 year remaining), are more than likely the best bets/hope.

Notable free agents: Dedmon, Monroe, James, Noel, Barton, Ariza, Paul, Bradley, Jordan, Caldwell-Pope, Lopez, Randle, Thomas, Evans, Cousins, George, Johnson, Re , Davis, Favors.

James, Paul, George, are obviously not happening and outside of Bradley, they probably won't have interest in anyone else.

I'd love for Spurs to be able dump Pau and Patty. Keep Green, Kyle cap holds ( Bertans is no brainer, so is Forbes).

If Spurs can't sign Bron or PG, sign Bradley to 3/30 deal, sign Randle to 3 yr/30-40 mil deal, and Baynes on team friendly 1+1 deal. Then use bird rights and sign Green to 2+1 deal at 10-12 mil per), Kyle 3-4 yr deal/24-35 mil, Bertans (2+1/ 4-6 mil per) and Forbes (should be very cheap), re-sign Tony to vet minimum and a big to vet minimum.

Underrated wings I'd like to target on 1+1 deals if whiff on Bradley: Glenn Robinson III, James Ennis, Wayne Ellington or see what we have in Blossomgame, and the Spurs' 1st round pick this summer ( haven't dove into prospects yet).

Murray - Green - Kawhi - Bertans/Kyle - LA
Bradley - White - Kyle - Randle - Baynes
1st round pick, Forbes, TP minimum deal, vet min big