Game Thread: Spurs @ Nuggets -- TUE. (2/13) - 9:30/C (5:30am Riga Time)

[SAGirl]

That's giving him credit for all the good and excusing all the bad. With their two best guys, they have an overwhelming talent advantage and really don't require remarkable coaching to beat teams like Denver. These are the (regular-season) games where Pop makes his money. Them looking completely inept, especially down the stretch, is not something that is typical of a Spurs team missing their stars. They're just being out-executed, and that is a coaching issue.

good points Chinook.
I didn't look it at it from that point of view...

Frankly what no one will say is that the 67 win and 61 win seasons Pop rested guys a lot... heck how do you think Kyle and Simmons and Boban and such got at least half their minutes each year. They still won bc Pop was very strategic with when he was resting etc.

This is uncharted territory for him with him having to rely on subs for an entire season and it's not relying on subs to give you Manu, Tony and Mills minutes, but to give you minutes in kawhi's, Gay's, and Lamarcus stead that is a tall task... specially if it's all season and not handpicked games.

[SAGirl]

you're asking guys like anderson, murray, forbes, mills, bertans to close games... when in most cir stances, in any compe ive playoff environment, it would be kawhi, aldridge, and even manu.

besides mills, none of those guys have really been counted on in consequential moments like they're suddenly being asked to, and their inexperience is showing. it's not all that surprising, though yes its frustrating watching leads evaporate in 4th quarters. but when hits the fan, they dont have the stabilizing force of an LMA bucket or a kawhi stop

I just have to highlight... the fact Mills is even in the conversation with those guys in rook/minimum deals as guys that were discombobulated tells you all you need to know. You could have taken him out and it didn't matter. He's no stabilizing force. Neither was Pau unfortunately and so I will complain about those deals.

[UnWantedTheory]

Yes, and you'd get a blow-out win, like a team as talented as the Spurs when healthy is wont to get. This was a pretty standard game for RRT. They come out of these games with wins most years. Pop would sit the Big Three on the second night of a B2B and the others would get them a win. Parker/Green/Anderson/Bertans/Gasol with guys like Mills and Murray tossed in aren't a playoff rotation, but they're the type that's gotten wins for SA more often than not in years past.

I believe the difference between then and now, is that we did not solely rely on "the others" like we must now due to our injuries and age.

[Fireball]

The Spurs team is not good enough to go far in the playoffs. But ranting over the last games against Utah and Denver is just silly. In both games they exceeded my expectations ... first they nearly come out on top of the hottest NBA team right now although missing Kawhi, LMA and Rudy Gay ... I mean these guys were supposed to give the Spurs 50 points a night. Then they play Denver on a b2b and the Nuggets also are on a good run recently. Again the Spurs played a good game, but in the second half the al ude just got them ... I mean they were exhausted as I have ever seen them. Manu injured himself and just proved Pop right that he should not play b2bs anymore. The Spurs cannot overcome the talent gap while having so much injuries ... its just not possible.

[DAF86]

At least we know that Aldridge-ball isn't winning ball, though.

Yeah, the Spurs losing in Denver without Leonard, Aldridge and Gay surely proves that Aldridge ball is indeed winning ball.

Also, still missing the point of that thread. I thought people were a little bit smarter here, tbh.

[TimDunkem]

Yeah, the Spurs losing in Denver without Leonard, Aldridge and Gay surely proves that Aldridge ball is indeed winning ball.

Also, still missing the point of that thread. I thought people were a little bit smarter here, tbh.

I mean, I thought it was pretty obvious that you were simply saying that mid-range post-up fadeaway jumpers weren't effective so he would have to be a defensive minded, opportunistic scorer ala Old Timmy D to give us the best chance to win.

This is why I don't like this roster (against the best teams) to begin with. Kawhiso gives us the best chance to win but it isn't neccesarily a good thing right now given how injury prone he seems to be.

Just my two cents.

[DAF86]

That flaming got DAF86 might be the worst poster on the board and thats saying a lot.

"BP3 > Simmons"
"Start Bertans"
"LMA ball is loser ball"

Suck my , you ass troll.

[DAF86]

I mean, I thought it was pretty obvious that you were simply saying that mid-range post-up fadeaway jumpers weren't effective so he would have to be a defensive minded, opportunistic scorer ala Old Timmy D to give us the best chance to win.

This is why I don't like this roster (against the best teams) to begin with. Kawhiso gives us the best chance to win but it isn't neccesarily a good thing right now given how injury prone he seems to be.

Just my two cents.

Pretty much, tbh.

[sasaint]

I mean, I thought it was pretty obvious that you were simply saying that mid-range post-up fadeaway jumpers weren't effective so he would have to be a defensive minded, opportunistic scorer ala Old Timmy D to give us the best chance to win.

This is why I don't like this roster (against the best teams) to begin with. Kawhiso gives us the best chance to win but it isn't neccesarily a good thing right now given how injury prone he seems to be.

Just my two cents.

My two cents: I believe that is exactly the miscalculation that PATFO made when they signed him, and why working out an offense that LMA buys into has been such a source of friction. He is simply not willing to "get his" in the opportunistic way Old Timmy did. LMA has always had his turn-around, fadeaway game, and as Pop learned last summer, he ain't interested in changing.

[John B]

Our role players exceeded my expectations the last two games. It was up to Kawhi, LMA and starters to finish the games. And if they come back healthy after the ASG, I really think we got a good chance, granted they get enough playing time to gel together.

[TD 21]

My two cents: I believe that is exactly the miscalculation that PATFO made when they signed him, and why working out an offense that LMA buys into has been such a source of friction. He is simply not willing to "get his" in the opportunistic way Old Timmy did. LMA has always had his turn-around, fadeaway game, and as Pop learned last summer, he ain't interested in changing.

Aldridge still has two working knees, which makes him a superior shot creator to a post prime Duncan (who was obviously still a better all around player). He also sees the absence of a single dynamic, play making guard. If they had one of them plus a healthy Leonard, he'd have no choice but to be more of a finisher/spacer.

[sasaint]

Aldridge still has two working knees, which makes him a superior shot creator to a post prime Duncan (who was obviously still a better all around player). He also sees the absence of a single dynamic, play making guard. If they had one of them plus a healthy Leonard, he'd have no choice but to be more of a finisher/spacer.

So, you think LMA's game is the result of his lacking Kawhi and, say, a prime Tony? But don't you think his game was the same back in Portland?

[BackHome]

Not trying to hate but Mills has been playing like crap the last couple of games. He is taking 3 point shoots when he is not set I don’t know why Pop hasn’t told him to stop. Even Sean ****** has mentioned when Patty has his two feet set he should shoot if not pass the ball.

I still don’t understand his and Gasol contracts. They just don’t make much basketball sense.

[TD 21]

So, you think LMA's game is the result of his lacking Kawhi and, say, a prime Tony? But don't you think his game was the same back in Portland?

No, I'm saying despite generally despising it stars generally adapt when they're playing with equal or greater stars. We've seen countless examples (Allen and to a lesser extent Garnett with Celtics; Bosh and to a lesser extent Wade with Heat; Love with Cavaliers, etc.). He also just so happens to be the easiest type to transition into more of a finisher/spacer role: a big who can shoot.

Spurs fans need to realize, Aldridge is the typical star and the big 3 were the outliers. The former wants to win on his terms, while the latter wanted to win on any terms.

[sasaint]

No, I'm saying despite generally despising it stars generally adapt when they're playing with equal or greater stars. We've seen countless examples (Allen and to a lesser extent Garnett with Celtics; Bosh and to a lesser extent Wade with Heat; Love with Cavaliers, etc.). He also just so happens to be the easiest type to transition into more of a finisher/spacer role: a big who can shoot.

Spurs fans need to realize, Aldridge is the typical star and the big 3 were the outliers. The former wants to win on his terms, while the latter wanted to win on any terms.

THAT'S certainly true. And I think it is apparent that Tim was the real key. We are groping right now.

[Chinook]

Yeah, the Spurs losing in Denver without Leonard, Aldridge and Gay surely proves that Aldridge ball is indeed winning ball.

Also, still missing the point of that thread. I thought people were a little bit smarter here, tbh.

It's ridiculous that you think you made a point in that thread. Everyone knew what you meant and just thought it was silly. THIS is the value of Aldridge, not how he'd fit with in a superstar trio. He raises the team's talent level considerably, gets his own shots and overpowers all but the best big-man defenders. Despite what you and the folks who made your "point" years before your thread wanted to believe, the Warriors avoided playing anyone but centers on Aldridge all game. Pace-and-space modern bigs can't guard him, and it forces teams to play traditional lineups. That benefit gets complete ignored by the 2D folks who only look at straight stats when making judgements, as does the basic alternative of Aldridge being replaced with a guy like Capela. The Spurs would be a lottery team with even fewer paths to a le had you gotten what you wanted with LMA being traded.

[TD 21]

It's ridiculous that you think you made a point in that thread. Everyone knew what you meant and just thought it was silly. THIS is the value of Aldridge, not how he'd fit with in a superstar trio. He raises the team's talent level considerably, gets his own shots and overpowers all but the best big-man defenders. Despite what you and the folks who made your "point" years before your thread wanted to believe, the Warriors avoided playing anyone but centers on Aldridge all game. Pace-and-space modern bigs can't guard him, and it forces teams to play traditional lineups. That benefit gets complete ignored by the 2D folks who only look at straight stats when making judgements, as does the basic alternative of Aldridge being replaced with a guy like Capela. The Spurs would be a lottery team with even fewer paths to a le had you gotten what you wanted with LMA being traded.

A combination of match-ups (it made no sense for the immobile Pachulia to guard Bertans) and sparring Green the physical grind of guarding one of the most overpowering bigs in the league, in a meaningless regular season game that they knew beforehand they'd win comfortably. He hasn't hesitated to have Green be the primary Aldridge defender in the past and wouldn't in a playoff series, particularly if Spurs made it compe ive.

[DAF86]

It's ridiculous that you think you made a point in that thread. Everyone knew what you meant and just thought it was silly. THIS is the value of Aldridge, not how he'd fit with in a superstar trio. He raises the team's talent level considerably, gets his own shots and overpowers all but the best big-man defenders. Despite what you and the folks who made your "point" years before your thread wanted to believe, the Warriors avoided playing anyone but centers on Aldridge all game. Pace-and-space modern bigs can't guard him, and it forces teams to play traditional lineups.

Tell me one instance in which this happened.

That benefit gets complete ignored by the 2D folks who only look at straight stats when making judgements, as does the basic alternative of Aldridge being replaced with a guy like Capela. The Spurs would be a lottery team with even fewer paths to a le had you gotten what you wanted with LMA being traded.

With Kawhi out and no other player capable of handling 1st option responsabilities, of course Aldridge is gonna be more needed than a Capela. But on a team correctly structured, with at least two perimeter oriented stars, a bigman like Capela is much more useful if your plan is to compete for championships.

BTW, do you remember when you laughed at my comment about the days of two traditional bigmen being over? Yeah, not so funny now, huh?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yeah, the Spurs losing in Denver without Leonard, Aldridge and Gay surely proves that Aldridge ball is indeed winning ball.

Also, still missing the point of that thread. I thought people were a little bit smarter here, tbh.

You are absolutely right in that Aldridge isn't winning ball. You absolutely CAN NOT win a le with Aldridge as your second best player. He's a third option player at best if you're serious about a le run.

[SAGirl]

Our role players exceeded my expectations the last two games. It was up to Kawhi, LMA and starters to finish the games. And if they come back healthy after the ASG, I really think we got a good chance, granted they get enough playing time to gel together.

Great point of view.

[Chinook]

Tell me one instance in which this happened.

It just happened in the GS game when the Warriors kept a center on the court the whole game as to avoid Draymond guarding LMA.

With Kawhi out and no other player capable of handling 1st option responsabilities, of course Aldridge is gonna be more needed than a Capela. But on a team correctly structured, with at least two perimeter oriented stars, a bigman like Capela is much more useful if your plan is to compete for championships.

That's like saying Rubio is more useful on a team with a ton of shooters. Sure, if you have everything set up for them then it's possible for a role-player to out perform a star. That's the misunderstanding people have when comparing players using stats. It's the classic generalist-specialist debate that has long been a thing in ecology but that sports is just now trying to figure out.

BTW, do you remember when you laughed at my comment about the days of two traditional bigmen being over? Yeah, not so funny now, huh?

No. I'm pretty sure you made that up, seeing as I wanted LMA to play center next to Terrance Jones years ago and got slammed for not wanting Miles Plumlee and Cole Aldrich instead.

[r0drig0lac]

Tell me one instance in which this happened.



With Kawhi out and no other player capable of handling 1st option responsabilities, of course Aldridge is gonna be more needed than a Capela. But on a team correctly structured, with at least two perimeter oriented stars, a bigman like Capela is much more useful if your plan is to compete for championships.

BTW, do you remember when you laughed at my comment about the days of two traditional bigmen being over? Yeah, not so funny now, huh?

nice post

[Chinook]

A combination of match-ups (it made no sense for the immobile Pachulia to guard Bertans) and sparring Green the physical grind of guarding one of the most overpowering bigs in the league, in a meaningless regular season game that they knew beforehand they'd win comfortably. He hasn't hesitated to have Green be the primary Aldridge defender in the past and wouldn't in a playoff series, particularly if Spurs made it compe ive.

In Game One last year, Kerr absolutely went away from Draymond guarding LMA, because Draymond couldn't do it. It was to such a point that Draymond himself started yelling for a switch any time he was on Aldridge. People forget that it wasn't just Kawhi dominating the Warriors in that game. That's even more true given that Green is not their primary scorer and doesn't have to be "saved" like that.

[TheGreatYacht]

Nook is handling scrubs, I see

[DAF86]

It just happened in the GS game when the Warriors kept a center on the court the whole game as to avoid Draymond guarding LMA.



That's like saying Rubio is more useful on a team with a ton of shooters. Sure, if you have everything set up for them then it's possible for a role-player to out perform a star. That's the misunderstanding people have when comparing players using stats. It's the classic generalist-specialist debate that has long been a thing in ecology but that sports is just now trying to figure out.



No. I'm pretty sure you made that up, seeing as I wanted LMA to play center next to Terrance Jones years ago and got slammed for not wanting Miles Plumlee and Cole Aldrich instead.

The son? Golden State last season didn't change it's rotation one bit and the Rockets were happily letting Aldridge go one on one on Harden without doubling because that's what they wanted, for the Spurs to post up.

And lastly, I can't believe you are denying that last thing. I don't know in which thread it was and I'm too lazy to do a hard search but I will see if I can find it with a quick one.